Bickering on the Forums

Welcome to the internet.

I think people did this before the internet, but you're right... there is something about the lack of face to face interaction that facilitates rude behavior. I hope whomever started this thread doesn't get chewed out. He/she has a great point.

I agree with what you're saying. This is a college forum for goodness sake. There are plenty of forums and web sites out there where you can troll and be as big of an asshole as you want. But this is not the place. I haven't seen to much drama here as of yet, but I am still new to WWU's forum. Hopefully the useless bickering will stop soon and people on these forums will act like mature adults.

[And I know, I see that stuff above my post, but I don't know how it got there, or how to make it go away.]

"I'm just trying to be friendly guys, but I think everyone who's bickering and insulting people are stupid idiot children who shouldn't be allowed to post here."

how do certain double standards just not get through to people? like is it a brain thing?

I find this post interesting because it serves no purpose. There are really two options: those who will agree with you and those who won't. Either it's "those people need to grow up" or it's "stop whining about other people's comments".

I personally agree with you, although calling it reminiscent of "Junior High girlfights" is reminiscent of those who spitefully ask girls who disagree with them if they're "PMSing," a personal pet peeve, but anyway.

There's no real point to my reply, I just hope real discussions force this off the MyWestern Lastest Topics listing soon, since that's how I find out about discussions (it hasn't yet become worthwhile to bookmark Viking Village).

Bump to the top.
hahahahahaha
but seriously, you should bookmark this shit, there's a lot of fun to be had~

I'm glad you think we're doing a good job as moderators. It's a hard line to walk between "discussion" and "bickering," and also between "keeping discussion civil" and "censoring." Of course I wish the forum would have no bickering, just all "real" discussion... but as humans that's very hard for us to do. In the meantime, the moderators can keep things from getting too out of control, and we can all make an effort at promoting civility and healthy dialogue. A sort of general rule of thumb I try to use: if I wouldn't say it in "real life," I shouldn't say it online.

I present to you the Greater Internet Dickwad Theory

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-34640480252896_2048_6556014

Now, I can't say it applies to everybody, but the general concept behind it holds true, as some people in this thread have noted. It's something about the anonymity of the internet that gets the better of people.

Jon Bash: About not saying things online that you wouldn't say offline...I mostly agree, but there are a few things that are for the internet, and for the internet only such as "lol", "lolololol", or in Japan's case, "wwwwwwwwwwwwww"...and a few dozen others...

 maybe we need a section devoted to flagrant bickering sessions with no real point... just lots of dirty insults and low brow humor. It would probably be quite popular!

They call it the Ridgeway dorms.

haha!

Hahaha
True for most of the ridge~

I live on the Ridge.

I know that whatever I post online I'm more than happy to say to your face. I guess I can understand how talking to real people over the internet makes social insecurity a non-issue.

Anyway, getting to the point...
I have a problem with most of the posters I've seen here. I also have a problem with interpretation of the rules. Mostly...

Maybe it's just the mix of users (or "practicing" moderators, thats not a shot at anyone, so calm down) we have, but this rule makes the forums feel like the kiddy pool.

It's reasonable to assume that we all have different thresholds of what we consider to be offensive, but frankly, I feel like most of you are too soft to use the internet.

What the hell? I'll give a recent example:
http://forum.wwu.edu/node/4882#comment-9531

This and the following post by Jon Bash I feel represents how the general user reacts when they are offended (except for editting others posts, of course :D )

There's a huge difference between trolling and illustrating a point, but I suppose a lot is lost in translation due to the monotony of text. While posting here, I often find myself needing to scan my post before hitting send, pruning side comments that would give you babies diaper rash immediately after processing.

I'm not asking for mods to defend themselves, because it's just coincidence that my example involves a mod.

Can't you people lighten up just a little bit? I mean, the OP had to post a disclaimer to their post (which reading my post after theirs kind of illustrates some of their points :p) which usually would be unneccessary, but seemed completely appropriate in context just to silence the nitpickers before they have a chance to cite constitutional violations, or whatever the fuck you people feel you have when you post on a forum.

Follow my example. Don't post anything you wouldn't say to someone's face. And learn to take reasonable criticism in stride for [insert deity of choice]'s sake.

Mod suggestion:
Don't interpret rules like computers. Remember that real people have personality and thus are capable of following the rules while displaying it. You can show off some personality too while exercising ban stick or ctrl+c, ctrl+v, ctrl+v into pop-up, <click OK>

When I first came onto the forum I was really suprised at all the bickering, and name calling, and basically the flat out desire for disruption.  I figured that since Viking Village is a university forum it would be pretty obvious that things could not be the same as on other forums.  Yeah, rules are gonna be a bit different, and people are going to be more sensitive to rules and civil discourse.  What else can you expect?  This forum is a reflection of the university, so the advisory board and the university administration are going to be pretty serious about it.

Honestly, I wish guidelines weren't necessary.  We are all adults (at least in age), and you would think that people would act accordingly.  But they don't, so there are guidelines.

I agree T.J., some are probably too 'soft' to use the internet, but I can't stress enough that this isn't just the internet.  This is a university forum, not a blog spot, or some random forum where anything goes; this is a university forum devoted to civil discussion and open dialogue between students and staff.

Just for clarification, I recognize that your comment was not an attack on moderators.  I'm not writing as a moderator, I'm writing as a student.  I don't really think the moderators need to defend themselves.

Yeah, I'd expect similar guidelines here as I would for a small discussion class; be honest, be involved in the issues, casual profanity ok, don't act like you own the place... but most importantly, topics of discussion are about the topics being discussed, not about the people involved. There's no gain for anybody, save for somebody who finds enjoyment in denigrating others, in being either "insulting" or "belittling." It's always the people least adapted to the environment (namely, those who don't communicate using internet forums/chat rooms, or who aren't as smart/eloquent) and the people whose opinions are farthest off the spectrum who get hit the hardest, and for what? For one person to attain some "maverick" status at the expense of somebody else's comfort? Since when is public humiliation the preferred method to bring people into the fold? I'd be proud if we were one forum that didn't carry this burden...

And for those who feel that theres' something to be gained by getting a rise out of other people, there's a whole internet out there. Discussions are more productive when we leave out the power ploys of making somebody insecure/defensive/enraged.

Public channels of communication (e.g., a university forum, to avoid the apparent standards of the rest of the internet) should be used for public issues, and personal communication--email, IM, private message, whatever--for personal issues. I think that should go without saying, but so should a lot of things here. I prefer that the discussions on this forum not turn into virtual verbal bar fights. Maybe the wording of the rule needs something a little less... day care like, but I see no productive purpose in allowing people to break it.

This is a complaint thread I can actually get behind. One-uppers are certainly responsible for a lot thread "hijacking", where no one is making any kind of real point, and just start pointing out poor grammar, and are almost begging the forum-roamers to notice their obvious brilliance. Also, in general, does everyone have to use the word "ignorant" when responding to a post they disagree with? Don't be such a snob.

I'd just like to make a note about that particular example you cited, TJ. In a classroom discussion, the rules can potentially be slightly different than here, because unless someone is recording the dialogue, once something has been said, it essentially dissipates. On the forums, whatever is said remains there indefinitely. Although Cole_Edwards was apparently satirically making a potentially valid point, he gave no obvious sign that he was being facetious, and so I took down the particular quote he used. Now, most would assume he wasn't serious, yes, but those not familiar with the nature of the forums may not make that assumption. If what he said was put up somewhere on campus on a posterboard or something, I'm betting a member of the LGBTQ community would have requested that it be taken down, regardless of intent, and I'm betting it would be taken down.

I'll find time soon enough to address the other points made, but keep on posting until then; we appreciate it!

eff those bickerers right in the a!

wait. are we bickering about how/why/when/where to bicker... we should start a thread about this.

I think george carlin said it best in his last hbo special

stfu! stfu! stfu! s t f u! 

tee shirts are available.

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/laughstore_2055_1213705

lighten up T.J.  

The edit button exists for a reason.

Well, I know for at least a small bit I'm guilty of this because I love logical arguments. It really interests me, so I get in trouble when I try to show how I believe someone else's argument is flawed because some people take it like I'm attacking them or some closely held personal belief, not just their argument. I also know that the way I talk can come off as elitist or just generally dickish... which isn't intentional, it's just how I talk.

Honestly, some people to it just to get a rise out of others, or out of some sense of shadenfreude (getting pleasure in someone else's pain) by just pissing people off for shits and giggles. What I learned from the psych101 class I took a few years ago as well as Cesar Milan (the Dog Whisperer) is that the best way to stop that kind of behavior is to ignore it and instead only acknowledge intelligent discussion. So that's what I suggest.

 I personally don't understand why some people like to pick fights with other people over a UNIVERSITY forum.

Do they not have anything else to do? Are their lives so completely devoid of drama that they feel the need to create it over the internet?

Hopefully no one would answer "yes" to either of these questions, however, if you did, I have two mere suggestions:

1) Go outside. It's pretty these days :)

2) Watch reality TV for your daily dose of drama - live vicariously through stupid, rich people's problems instead of creating your own over a forum.

Also, the people that pick fights on here just look like giant a-holes. 

Hopefully everyone will be mature enough NOT to pick this posting apart. 

http://i44.tinypic.com/2cmpwcy.jpg

Here is me being super duper nit picky. Boys fight too. I just cringe a little whenever I see bitching as a girl thing, it's (completely unintentionally I'm sure) slightly sexist when you reduce us to that stereotype

WesCoa, you are pretty effing awesome. I read that post and totally missed the blatant sexism. Thanks... 

ps. global warming is real, so are dinosaurs...

This is precisely why I gave up posting on these forums some months ago.  This is supposed to be an university forum, not an open-internet dustbin.  The childishness and stupidity that is found on the forums interspersed with what would otherwise be intelligent conversation is simply unacceptable, and ruins the entire experience for me.

Moderators: keep up the good work.

like a total snob with this. Sorry. Lighten up. You are ruining your own experience. This may not be a public forum, but it is a place for ALL wwu students. Your enjoyment on here is not of supreme importance just because you feel like intellectual conversation is the most valuable thing. Some of us like to mix things up. We like humor, and hot debates, and even a little mayhem. Some of us need that outlet. We have to make compromises all the time. We have to curb our appetite to make crude remarks and tear the crap out of people for saying things that we think are utter nonsense. So, it's not like we stole your forum or something, and it's not like you are unable to compromise a little too.

Moderators: keep up the good work.

It feels a little like "the forums were stolen,"  since in Fall quarter, there was almost no disruptive behaviour.  It began mid-Winter.  Snob or no, I think that dialogue on such a forum should be purely restricted to academic language and debate (at least within threads intended for that end).  The rude comments, accusations and unsupported opinions presented are an affront to such discussion and are a mockery of human intelligence in general!  If you want attention, start an attention getting thread; don't litter intelligent topics with dribble.

I cannot understand chaotic thinking and bashing people or ideas.  It is inconsistent and impossible for me to understand.  It is a disruption only.  I am not unwilling to accept new ways of thinking, I merely consider the form in question as completely unnecessary.  Plus, I did compromise:  I stopped posting for several months to avoid this problem!  I'm posting now only to inform others of the reasons for why I disappeared.

 "the forums were stolen"
-> it's still right here, all students should have access to it to gain utility as they see fit. Shutting down any dialogue that you feel is unworthy would constitute stealing imo.

"It began mid-Winter"
-> great, that's about when I showed up.

"The rude comments, accusations and unsupported opinions presented are an affront to such discussion and are a mockery of human intelligence in general!"
-> yeah, but they are coming from your fellow students and they are part of humanity and they have a connection to you. Casting them aside and/or shunning their existence is not a productive way to bring everybody up to your level (assuming your level is higher n the first place), it in fact drags you down to theirs. If you have good stuff to say, say it. Say it loud. If you feel like people are being lousy, tell them! 

Bottom line what you think is dribble might liven up some one else's day. This space would be dreadfully boring if all it was was a safe place for pseudo intellectuals to spew dribble with a slightly higher syllable content. We are all here doing the same thing: Trying to learn something from our peers and maybe teach them something too. We are communicating in the best way we know how and with language we understand. We can either learn to enjoy each other's idiosyncrasies and grow stronger as a diverse group, or we can shut each other and ourselves down down down.

I think this topic is addressing something that is a concern to some forum users.  The setup of Viking Village is meant as a resource for this university community, and the moderators are doing a great job, well, moderating. So why do people feel the need to ruin that just because it's on the Internet?

Those people replying, "Welcome to the Internet" says to me, that people have no control over themselves and the internet might as well exist as the dumpsite for commentary that society tells you to suppress otherwise. That the most socially accepted way to express the "worst of you" is anonymously, seem unhealthy to me....

Thoughts?

You have absolutely no way of knowing if I'm like this in real life or not.  I don't need the anonymity of the internet to cause trouble and point out when someone is being stupid - we're in Bellingham, after all, there are plenty of opportunites.

All I'm saying is, this isn't that anonymous to begin with, and even if it was, I'm still like this in person.  It's the charming side of my personality that I feel compelled to share with this town.

Also, Pete, I lol'd at "Great, that's about the time I showed up".

So here is a good example of someone that really rides the fence in terms of acceptable behavior. It is easy to say that the forum would be a more presentable and courteous place if our friend here was asked to leave. I have in fact seen moderators ask him (and a few other fine ladies and gentlemen) to "knock it off". So, what would the value be of displacing our friend Dou---bago_Fu--tardimus. Who is qualified to make the decision that what he types is of negative value to the experiences of forum users? Who should come to his defense?

You should think about a new name. Doubimus? Dou---bago_Fu--tardimus is too long. 

Doubimus, thanks for rattling our cages. You are a human being I can relate with. You have a sense of humor. You have a sense of humility.  It's fun to watch you catch a rise out of people. Keep participating, keep being honest. No below the belt stuff, ok?

People have been bickering since as long as I can remember, and my first computer was a commodore 64. Maybe it's better that we, as a society, have this interface. Instead of thinking of the internet as an opportunity for people to show you their "worst" think of it as a place where we can give each other the honest truth (at least as we see it). Some people see bickering as a waste, a game of winners and losers, an eyesore in some theoretical world where everyone is comfortable with everything everyone else says. I say if we intend to grow as a society we have to interact and we have to work out our differences. So, when we see and hear people saying or doing things that make us uncomfortable, do we walk away? 

No, we talk it out. Right? I say let us bicker. If you don't like it start you're own thread. If someone is really harassing you this forum is not anonymous, so report it if you honestly feel threatened by someone. Try to remember, these are just words. They only truly hurt you if you attach some meaning to them. No one requires you to read or agree with what you read.

That wasn't my doing, you can thank Wyatt Jarvis for the name.  I thought it was charming, like a badge of sorts.

Otherwise, I'm here for the lulz.

But it is not so much the bickering, or the foul language and bad humor... it's the people who just love to be contrary merely to spite people. The name callers, the egotists who try to belittle everything other people say. I don't know, maybe I am just fed up with a couple people whose behavior feels antagonistic, rather then exuberantly offensive. I don't really see the mods doing a whole heck of a lot to address those people, but it is a big forum... maybe I am just secluded from their efforts. 

[edited for offensive content]

You're absolutely correct Pete, however the two types of users often go hand in hand.  My condemnation of the silliness attempted to address the antagonistic types as well, though you have a point.  They need to be considered seperate, and it is they who really make it difficult for meaningful conversation and debate.  Offensiveness is easily ignored, but blantant disregard for others isn't.  It's my nature to find order in disorder I suppose, which is why I care.

Cheers

Somehow this gets overlooked but an off color joke (not specifically directed at anyone) can land you a perma ban. It just doesn't add up. I mean, I would support an actual rigid policy, but the policy just seems to be casually enforced on a few individuals... That, I suppose, is another problem with advocating for censorship. It becomes, either directly or consequently, selective in its application. 

I second that. Adding a " ;D " after a hostile post does not make it any less hostile.

:D

Firstly, The post was meant to support the Original Poster through irony, it's too bad that not everyone can see that.

Second, thanks Pete, for knowing whats up, and...

Third, miborovsky, you didn't second that, because you actually didn't really make the same post as Pete,,,

I'm not sure if I know what is up. I actually supported the removal of your post. I don't really think name calling is appropriate, I do appreciate irony though. I hope that you keep posting too, and I hope that we can work together to make the forum a better place.

p

Uh, I don't make posts that don't add substance to a thread. So I inject something other than "yeah, what he said" into all my posts. This is obviously a novel concept to you... Sorry... The first part of my post says "I agree with Pete." The second part is my own contribution.

Confucius said: He who keeps the old akindle and adds new knowledge is fit to be a teacher.

I actually find it hilarious. I like reading people's heated arguments, the more mundane and obnoxious, the better. For instance, recently I read someone's post about summer classes, and they had their math wrong and stated the incorrect number of weeks; someone replied with "Wow. Your math is horrible, btw." Then the original poster said "Wow, your manners are horrible, btw." And she went on to call him out on being a douche, etc etc, whatever it was. And I laughed... out loud. Because it's true, the kid's manners were pretty bad, but it was funny! Her math DID suck. Whatever, it happens to the best of us. To get so upset over snide comments that you receive on an internet forum? A COLLEGE internet forum? It just seemed... silly... It just reminds me forcibly of a YouTube comment thread or something, where a bunch of 14-year-old kids are figuratively yelling "fag" at each other underneath Charlie Bit Me.

HOWEVER

I do think all the haters out there need to class up their act. I've seen people say some pretty nasty things over the internet for no evident personal gain, just to be mean to someone with differing opinions. That, I understand completely, is not cool. But you know, as in any aspect of everyday life... it happens. So don't take it personally -- the person doesn't even know you, so why should you take offense?

So what am I supposed to do? Just let someone that is wrong on the internet just keep being wrong?

......I can't let that happen. I will continue to argue till they see they are wrong. Also if I get the last post in the argument or they say "I don't want to argue about it" it means I win too. I win the internet.

Sorry! -- no, you don't have to let them just say stupid stuff and not call them out on it, not at all. I also agree that saying "I don't want to argue about it" relinquishes a person's right to be taken seriously. What I mean is that if a stranger on an internet forum tries to personally attack you somehow, it's groundless, because they don't know you, so you shouldn't take offense to whatever it is they're saying.

You also mentioned that you would argue until the person sees that they are wrong -- have you ever actually tried that on a forum? Like, with serious subjects? It's... unbelievable. I never knew what "stubborn" meant until I read an argument about gay marriage that didn't get ANYWHERE, on either side. People don't change their opinions easily.

xkcd pwn's

http://xkcd.com/386/ 

HA!