Religious singing in Red Square

Just get a megaphone and start singing about how you love Satan. I bet that would create discussion. 

P.S. I'll probably write a more serious post on the subject later... 

Firstly, I think you set your intentions up well - I was kind of expecting something like "WTF is with those singers" (maybe I spend too much time entertaining myself with craigslist r&r, so I expect that kind of stupidity everywhere)...

Anyway, I've never really noticed them.  I mean, I notice people singing, sure, but I usually don't stop and listen to what they are singing.  I'm not Christian at all, but I actually kind of like the idea that they could sing like that publicly, that they feel free to do something like that.  Then again, I could see how it could strike some people as intrusive or insensitive; I think everyone has been in a situation where their religious-or-lack-thereof beliefs have been shoved by someone else's.  I think their intentions might just be to sing about something they care about.  I've seen other groups singing in Red Square - occasionally - and the goal seems just to be 'lifting themselves up through song', as corny as it sounds.  Wow, that does sound really corny... but still kind of true, for all of the singers-of-Red-Square.

Then again, I'm also one of those people who succumbed to the disease of iPods, so if something really bothers me I just smile politely and turn up my music.  Plus, most of my classes aren't near Red Square so I've only seen the occasional singers.

That's a well-thought out post,  I'm curious what other people think also.  For me, I'm really torn about it.  On one hand, I enjoy it, I'm Christian, and whenever I walk by it sort of lifts my attitude for the rest of the day.  However, I do always feel embarassed, because it seems like it sort of makes Christianity seem cliquey, and a very closed circle.

Why I have never felt comfortable singing with them is what the motivation would be behind the singing in public.  Is it as an outward sign of inward faith, or is there an evangilistic element to it?  For me personally, I would be constantly critiquing my motives behind it.  I personally believe, that if you're in Red Square, people walking by are going to perceive it as putting on a show, no matter what the inward motivation.  So it seems like it sort of hinders conversation in the future.

Another question to go along w/ this:  Why don't other religious groups do similar things?  I mean, I know CCF is huge, but do smaller groups not feel comfortable singing/ practicing their religion in a public place?

Definitely a well thought out and considerate post, thank you so much.

I grew up with those songs in church, and to me they are simply outward expressions of what I suppose I would call the joy and reverence associated with the Christian faith. To me, worship songs have never been about getting in anyone's face, rather I feel that the people in Red Square are probably just saying, "Here I am, I love my life and I love my God."
Although I could be wrong, my whole outlook on what religion, or rather spirituality, is to me is about embracing other beliefs and professing your own in a state of equilibrium. I guess that personal preferences about spirituality would be in a different topic though, so that's all I'll say on the matter.

Bottom line, I do admire their ability to stand together (or sometimes alone) in the middle of a busy public place and sing out about what they believe. It takes a lot to stand up for yourself as a person who does believe in God, whatever god that may be. I kind of hope that other religious groups go ahead and have their own hour where they sing, or present information on what they believe. In fact, isn't that what we generally use Red Square for? Free expression is fantastic, I'm grateful to be out of high school where things were so "hush hush." As long as everyone (within the group and observing) is rational and keeps an open mind, I don't see why the groups would be harmful.

It doesn't bother me. I'm not Christian or religious at all. I find the singing much less offensive than some of the stuff that goes on in red square like the abortion pictures or some of the fliers that are handed out on campus. I don't think we should be censoring this type of stuff on campus. They're not offensive, unobtrusive, and they don't try to get people to convert. Just because this is college doesn't mean that everything on campus needs to be liberal. I'd much prefer an atmosphere where different groups feel comfortable to talk about their beliefs than one that is hostile towards religion.

I find the quality of the singing offensive. Christ. Practice in private, THEN perform in public.

I like hearing music outdoors. Whether it's someone sitting by the fountain with a guitar or religious singing, I approve of it.

I really have a problem with people who try to push their faith on you, but I don't see public singing as one of those cases. I'm not religious at all, but I have been to Jesus Camp and I actually enjoyed it a lot. Including the singing.

T.J. you are my hero.

Especially for the "chirst" addition.

"I personally believe, that if you're in Red Square, people walking by are going to perceive it as putting on a show, no matter what the inward motivation."

I feel this way too.  At first I thought I was slightly annoyed by this group because of their religious affiliation, but then I realized I often am bothered by people singing loudly to themselves anywhere.  Even if it is an expression of joy for them, it might not be bringing joy to those who are forced to listen to it. 

Maybe I'm jealous because I can't sing.  But then, I dance and do gymnastics instead of singing and if I do either of those in as public a place as red square, yes, I am showing off.

I don't know if these particular singers are showing off their vocal chords or their beliefs more, but a humble and personal passion for something is always more impressive than an unsponsored (to differentiate between concerts and random kids) public display.

I share this feeling. There's plenty of places for them to sing privately so the fact that they're doing it in the square shows that they WANT people to see and hear them. If they're performong on purpose it should be a good performance

 There's some verse in the Bible about "letting your light shine," which I'm pretty sure is what's behind the Red Square singing. While no one should judge the inner motives of other people, I have personal experience with evangelistic culture, so I feel confident in saying that part of their project involves some sort of 'witnessing' dimension. It's likely that they are interested in 'shining their light' so that others will be drawn towards it, like a moth or something. Shine your light, fine, but don't shine that thing in my face, man.

Personally I find it embarrassing for them. When I pass by, I don't see a group of people who are 'confident and free,' but, from the looks of their inwardly oriented body language and downward gazes, it looks more like a group of self-conscious people who think that this is what they ought to be doing, in spite of its unpopularity. Like making some sort of personal sacrifice for God or something.

The question is not whether it is 'offensive' or should be 'censored' - I doubt there are very many people who think they don't have every right to do whatever they want (in terms of free expression) - but the question is whether or not what they're doing is effective in regards to their own 'goals,' whatever they may be. If their goals are to 'glorify God,' I think most of the attention is being diverted away from God by their public display; if their goal is to 'be a witness for Christ,' it only makes me, for one, less congenial to the whole prospect of wanting anything that they have to offer. Why would I want to publicly embarrass myself like that?

Piety is a mixed bag. Often it serves the self-interest of those who engage in public displays, in the sense that they are doing some kind of service for God. Let them sing. But let them also understand that, at least for this individual, they are only drawing attention to themselves, and in the process are making their faith seem so much less attractive than it already is.

Personally I enjoy walking through red square and hearing them singing.  And really, they are only there once a week for a few hours.  Not claiming to any particular religon myself, I have much respect for them to feel comfortable enough to do this, in a place where they probably know they are not 100% welcome.  Having taken part in this singing in past years you would be suprrised by how often someone would thank us after, or the amount of faculty and students with no affiliating to the particular group of people would ask if they could join.  As to motivations, I'm not really sure, I don't think anyone is trying to push their religion on anyone else, mostly sharing, inspiration, or maybe even acknowledging that Western is a place where this can happen.

Personally, i would be happy to see a gathering of other religions that sang hyms and what not is red square, and happily sit and listen to them all.

I was literally JUST thinking about this. I'm in the library, and the singers are out on the fountain doing their thing right now. And today, for the first time, it bothered me. Honestly, they are not very good. No offense to any of the singers who read this, but seriously, It just doesn't sound good to me.  I don't like it.  And I don't want to hear it every single day.  I also am bothered by the lack of diversity in the religious beliefs expressed in Red Square.  The contasnt presence of the singers, the people who want to talk faith, or that incredibly intrusive and in my opinion offensive giant cross cause me to feel like I'm going to a Christian school. I feel uncomfortable, like I am constantly under pressure from this looming religious force to consider and practice their beliefs. I shouldn't have to feel that way every time I walk through red square.

I'm not saying I don't think they should be allowed to express themselves and share their opinions with others, but I don't think they should be allowed to do it non-stop. Remember those guys trying to tell us that environmentalism is the genocide and that the green movement is all a sham?  That was okay with me, because they were only out there once. They got people thinking about their issue, and maybe converted a few of us.  However, if they were out there every day singing songs about Nazi greeners and putting up a giant symbol of their movement, I would be very upset and offended.  I think that freedom of speech should be welcomed on this campus, but I think that the people expressing themselves need to know their limits.  Take a break, my Chrisitian friends. We've heard your message, thought about, and now we want to enjoy Red Square in peace.  

And maybe take some singing lessons...like I said, no offense, but come on.

"When I pass by, I don't see a group of people who are 'confident and free,' but, from the looks of their inwardly oriented body language and downward gazes,"

To this, i must say that they all schedule this time because they want to, or plan to be on campus at that partiular time. and the downward gaze is merelyy praying...or reading lyrics

Lemme come out and say firstly that I'm one of those singers.  I enjoy randomly coming up and being able to sing in public--it's soothing, freeing, and fun.  I'm not a good singer though.  I wouldn't do solo.  But it's really amazingly freeing to be able to sing in public... to be able to walk around barefoot in red square, toss a frisbee, and then go sing a song, all in between classes... it kinda makes this place a little more homely, a little more comfortable and relaxing.  I love it.
Sure, there's an element of "let your light shine" kind of thing.  I think it's different for each of us singers--you'd have to ask us all individually.  For some of us it might be a way of letting our faith show.  For a few of us it might be evangelistic.  For me, it's the freedom to sing in public... the welcome feeling of community and family I get when I can just walk up and join them, even though I don't even know more than half of the people I'm standing with.
On a sunny day, this is even more enjoyable.  More fun, more enlightening.  Haha, get it? "enlightening" on a "sunny" day! Teehee.  I funny.

Honestly though, if it is intrusive, it's only one hour a day... and it's honestly not ill-intended towards anyone.  We're not stopping anybody else from being out there... we're not promoting a political party or a way of thinking... we're just enjoying the sunshine and being thankful for being alive on this fine day :)

The singing of Christian songs on campus bothers me immensely.  I seem to be the only one who feels this way so far, but I'm alright with that.  I try to walk as fast as possible so that I don't have to hear those songs that I remember from my old Christian days before that sermon I heard in youth group where they told us that "one day, we'll all be up in heaven, eating a bucket of KFC, watching all the other people down on earth burn."  

I do, obviously, realize that this was just some strange off-hand comment by one certain pastor, but it made me hate the Christian religion.  I don't want to hear the songs, I don't want your religion or other views pushed on me in any form whatsoever in any public place.  This goes for the guy with the huge "sinners" sign, the LaRouche jerks, the old men who hand out little bibles, the group that puts up pictures of bloody fetuses in red square each year, and many others as well.

I want everyone to believe whatever makes them happy, I just don't want to have to witness it.  I know it is extreme, and I don't really know why I feel this way.. but that's just my opinion.

I personally love the singing.  Who cares how good they are?  They sing with spirit and if you can just learn to look at something simple in which people are enjoying themselves...perhaps you too can get some enjoyment out of it.  Like watching a small child gleefully playing with bubbles or flowers....does that not make you smile?  These people are enjoying themselves (I'm assuming) and just enjoying each others company and the freedom of singing.  Just sing for the reason that is right for you (if you are not religious perhaps try getting a group together and singing Lean on Me or Ain't no Mountain High Enough)....even those that wrinkle their nose as they walk by might find they enjoy it.  LAlalalalalalalala.....!

Red Square is supposed to be a place of open say and opinions. Just as you are allowed to say whatever you want to here on the forums you are also allowed to speak your mind in Red Square. If you have a problem with the people out in Red Square singing, handing out flyers, talking, or recruiting then don't walk through it. You also have every right to say no thank you or to just ignore the people there. But taking away their right to be there is ludicrous.

I'm down.
Well, maybe not Satan.
'N Sync songs?

Hmm...I'll admit that I participate in the singing group as I am able, and I believe that people just don't understand why we're there.  Outreach?  Perhaps. But prominently Morning Sing takes place in Red Square so as to provide a reliable, convenient place for students to gather and praise God in between classes, not to shove faith in people's faces.  The lyrics we sing reflect our joyful and hope-filled outlook and are certainly NOT structured to be taken by passers-by as a fire-and-brimstone sermon made for coercing them into saying 'uncle'. 

Why do we circle up?  Would you rather we faced people and stared them down awkwardly as they walk from one end of the square to the other?  A circle, by far, is the least intrusive way to gather, as others won't feel that our singing is directed at them.  It's directed as worship TO our God (as opposed to public display FOR our God).  It's also kinda hard to sing without looking down at a handout with the lyrics...I know I'm not too great at memorizing lyrics, so I rely pretty heavily on it.  I'm sorry if it makes me look uncomfortable or self-conscious.  And believe it or not, the folks who drop by to sing LOVE it and keep comin' back for more! 

And if we do look awkward or embarrassed, let us be awkward and embarrassed for Christ!  Whoopee!  It isn't a burden of suffering to sing about what makes us joyful to the one who makes us joyful.  Far be it from that, it is often the high point of my morning.  I'm terribly sorry if my less than stellar singing voice (I will be the first to admit that my singing voice SUCKS! ) bothers you, but I often find that our singing is at a very low decible...the fountain usually makes enough noise to sufficiently mute us. 

If anyone takes the singing as a personal offense, we completely apologize.  But Red Square is SO central and convenient that I appreciate meeting there to sing.  Besides, if we want to outreach and talk to people about Jesus, we do so directly.  We're not timid religious ho-hums that try to saturate your brain with Christ-centered background noise...we honestly care for you and your well-being but will not force the issue. 

And Morning Sing isn't exclusive or clique-ish (as I suppose it could be seen)!  Many, many people come and go, constantly altering the size of our group.  All are welcome, and I see that we should work on making that more clear.

None but the best wishes to you

-Skyler

"russele"-

Wow it sounds like you've been through some pretty rough stuff.  I am appalled about the "one day, we'll all be up in heaven, eating a bucket of KFC, watching all the other people down on earth burn." statement...That's not what we're about...AT ALL! 

I can completely understand your anger over the in-your-face 'SINNER REPENT OR BURN IN HELL' people...they're approaching the issue in a very wrong way.

I'm kinda short on words at the moment, and all I can say is that I'm apologizing in Christ for those people and wish your forgiveness.  If you'd like to meet up some time so you can vent to someone who will listen, I'm open.  I don't shove my faith down the throats of others, and can promise that I do, in fact, care.

-Skyler (again)

if you're going to keep the Christians from singing in Red Square, I beseech you to go all out and flatten the guitars of all the shameless stereotypes braying Deathcab or Josh Groban as well. secular adoration is just as irritating.

I just laugh, shake my head, and keep on walking.  I think it is something that should be ignored, and hopefully it will go away.  We probably need some rain.  That will at least send them inside for a while.  I'm not sure why all the weirdos come out with the sun.  I thought there was supposed to be a nocturnal correlation.  Oh well.

I pretty much equate them with Satan already. How about a rousing chorus of "Bye Bye Bye" complete with dance moves?

 I'm sorry that you had that encounter with the pastor that said those things. That is not what the Christain religion is about. "This fire and brimstone" concept doesn't really appeal to, well...anybody. God doesn't want to see the beings He made out of Love burn and suffer, and enjoy it by the way that you described it. This pastor guy sounds like a real doofus, but I'm sure there are things in your life that you wish you hadn't've said. But to judge everyone and thier beliefs because of an "off-hand comment by on certain pastor" isn't exactly fair. That's like meeting someone who wears a green shirt, who pisses you off, and assuming that everyone who wears green shirts believe and act the same. I'll have to appologise the LaRouche guys as well. Not for making you uncomfortable, but for casting stones on people when they themselves are sinners. 

but about the singing: If the singers were performing for YOU I think they would at least practice. The One who hears them thinks it's music to His ears. Of course, no one is going to muffle their right to free speech to make sure some people are comfortable.In some places (Kabul for example)  you would be hauled off to jail or even killed for singing like they do. I've noticed that they don't exactly sound the best too. They know that as well, trust me. So what does that say about them, that they are willing to stand in public and recieve judgment and criticism for an hour every day? It's interresting, and it made me curious enough to find out why. They have a passion and love for God that I would not expect most people to understand. Maybe go to CCF sometime and see for yourself. Anyway, if everyone understood thier passion and the love of God like they do then this forum wouldn't exist. I was just a little confused, though, about how they are pushing their beliefs on you. I don't see it. 

I haven't read through all the posts but all I have to say on the topic is I really dislike the singers because I think they all feel really uncomfortable to be there.  They huddle in a small group looking at the ground (perhaps to see lyrics but if they're there every day you'd think they would know the lyrics by now) and looking altogether awkward in my opinion.  I could just be projecting my feelings from childhood church onto the singers, but because they're so often overlooked, I can't imagine they are very proud and excited to be there.  If you're proud of something and want others to know it, sing loud, heads high and outward, not just inward to each other.  I understand that can be obtrusive but what's the point of singing in red square if you don't want other people to hear it?  Because it is an everyday thing I also feel it is forced upon those that do participate.  As a member of a sport club there are many activities that occur less frequently than every day that I don't want to participate in because I would rather be doing something else.  Yet I am still heavily encourage by captains and coaches and feel bad for not showing up to those events.  I think some of the singers must feel the same way.  How many of those students would rather be studying, practicing their religion on their own or just enjoying the sun?  Instead they are made to feel guilty if they don't participate in the meager choir group on a very liberal campus.  I understand religion is more of a lifestyle than participating in a sport club and therefore more followers of the religion might actually want to sing about their faith, but I can't help but think that the singing group is pushed on the students by some outside, higher church authority.  This is all speculative and I'm sure at least one person would be happy to prove me wrong and say that they really love singing their faith in red square everyday, but I can't imagine all or even most of the singers actually feel comfortable.  If so, I challenge them to make more of a statement: sing louder, post a sign, stand straighter or just look proud.  I just end up feeling bad for the kids because I understand how awkward it is to be forced to show a passion for God in front of strangers
But thanks for opening up this topic, I think it's really interesting and deserves a lot of discussion!

 "It's directed as worship TO our God (as opposed to public display FOR our God)."

Whatever.

There's a reason you don't meet up in Sehome Arburitum to sing: because no one would see you. Red Square is literally the most 'public square' on campus, and people choose that site to be seen. 

Didn't Jesus constantly reprimand the Pharisees for making a public display of their piety? 

The people that sing on campus make me smile when I hear them. Half the time it is so loud out there they are not easy to hear at all, so I am not sure how people can be bothered? Red Square is pretty big, you don't have to walk directly by them.

For a long time since coming to college I have been trying to figure out what I believe. I sympathize with the person that got put off by the awful comments of just one person. I am to the point in my life where I do not want anyone ever telling me what to believe, either. I do still consider my beliefs very Christian, but I don't associate with a church anymore. I feel sad for people who 'give up' on Christianity because they feel as though it attacks their individuality. It doesn't have to at all, it can be extremely personal. Just something to think about maybe.

To the people who sing on campus, please don't ever stop! You really remind me of the comfort and happiness that is shared between Christians, heck, between humans, and even though I haven't had the time or guts I guess to go and join you, maybe some day I will. I think that is probably one of the reasons why you do it in Red Square. It isn't to show off (the good Lord knows I can't sing very well either) it's to be inviting for people like me who just really miss Jesus sometimes. So thanks, and keep up the good work! =)

A central aspect of Morning Sing is the convenient location.  It allows students to drop by after class, sing a song, and head off to the next class.  If we held it somewhere else on campus a) no one would be able to make it and b) people would just issue complaints anyway. 

Jesus did rebuke those who pray in public for the sake of looking holy and uplifting themselves.  We honestly wish to praise God at do-able, regular intervals, and lift HIs name on high. 

This is not a superficial dealy, we earnestly mean it and joyfully live in light of that.

Take it easy!

-Skyler

ALL ARE WELCOME!

WE LOVE YOU!

NO MATTER WHAT!

Thanks for your posts Skyler.  I am appalled and mortally sickened by what this whole post has become.

They could at least sing some Zep.

Give us the Jesus lyrics and we'll think about it!

YEAH WHOOPEE!  I LOVE BELLINGHAM, WESTERN, AND ALL OF YOU PEOPLE!  WE SHOULD END THIS POST BEFORE IT GETS RIDICULOUS. (besides, I believe that all possibly relevant views have been expressed)

Only the best of wishes

-Skyler

Seeing as you know so much about what Jesus said, surely you must know the verses in Luke 8 that say,

"No one after lighting a lamp covers it with a jar or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a stand, so that those who enter may see the light. 17 For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light. 18 Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away."

I don't know why people feel the need to judge WHY they're singing.  It's not anyone's place to judge why someone is doing something personal until it becomes directed at someone else, or harmful to someone else.  Who cares if the singing isn't good?  Does everyone who is ugly have to wear a bag over his/her face?  Unfortuantely, our senses will be exposed to unattractive things incessantly throughout our lifetimes, be it voices, faces, smells, etc.

I am not religious at all, but I grew up in a very religious home, so sometimes I have the urge to walk over and TALK to these people about their beliefs in an attempt to show THEM the light and freedom that comes with the escape of religion.  However, after numerous drawn-out and circular/redundant conversations with the parents and numerous other believers, I've come to terms with the fact that many people attribute a great deal of personal happiness to their belief and devotion to a god.  I'm not one of those people, but if it makes them happy then WHO THE FUCK CARES.  None of us can profess to have the answers.

And singing is simply fun.  I love to sing.  Everyone SHOULD sing.  It's both energizing and releasing.  Sometimes I sing loudly without regarding the people who are present around me.  Sometimes I sing for attention, but that's in a separate atmosphere.  When I'm walking down the street singing some lame song, it's usually because I have just been possessed.  If it bothers you, I really could care less.  Get over it.  Walk somewhere else. 

Worship is an important part of Christianity. The verse most often referenced for worship (I don't know what book it comes from in the Bible) says something to the extent, "Wherever two or more gather to worship God will be there."

I agree though, Christianity may seem cliquey. However, freedom of speech entitles them to sing/worship just as it entitles you to engage in dialogue with them if you choose (or scream at them as it seem some would choose to do since they hate Christianity so much)

And if Zep isn't holy enough for them I've gone through and used the "Eric Cartman Method" to translate part of the Lemon Song into 100% pure... jesus?

I went to sleep last night, I work as hard as I can-a
I bring home my money, you take my money Jesus, give it to another man
I should have quite you Jesus, baby-a, oh, such a long time ago-ho
I wouldn't be hear withall my troubles
nn-down on this killin' floor

Squeeze me, Jesus, 'till the juice runs down my leg
Do, squeeze, squeeze me, Jesus, until the juice runs down my leg
The wayyou squeeze my lemon-a
I'm gonna fall right outta bed, 'ed, 'ed, bed, yeah

Yeah
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey
Juice, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus
Baby, baby, Jesus, baby, baby, Jesus
Hey, babe, Jesus, Jesus, babe, oh, no
No, no, now, now
I'm gonna leave my children down on this killin' floor

I'd love to hear them sing this in red square.

 See post #11.

In Luke 8, Jesus wasn't speaking to people who were already making a public display of their faith, but to a bunch of people who were curious about who he was and what he had to say. The Pharisees were already on board. 

I'll be the first in line to stand up for the singer's right to sing to their hearts' content wherever they choose. All I'm saying is that they're drawing a lot of attention to themselves (judging by the response to the original post), and it's my opinion that that's a big part of the project.

I spent a lot of time in choir, and still practice singing.  A lot of choir pieces are christian hymns, or are affiliated with religion somehow - it  just happens that they wrote a lot of beautiful music.  Often times people aren't singing these pieces of music for the actual lyrical content, but for the beauty of the music itself. 

I didn't personally see the people singing in red square, so I can't say whether they were openly a christian group, or possibly just one of the choirs practicing outside, which I know happens quite often.  Because that makes a lot of difference, and what I wrote above would then be obsolete!

he reprimanded them, but he didn't call for a movement to silence them. it's just singing. i mean, how irritable are you people? in this day and age, people are getting tortured and being forced to watch their children being beaten half to death - as much as the OMGHERETICSOEDGY children's movement on this board would like to attribute this to folk who just like reading the same parts of the same book alot, there's just no creedence to it. they're doing NO harm, and it isn't like they're throwing pictures of mutilated human tissue in your face.

seriously, why is there so much rampant anti-christianity on this forum? and how is it not being called out as what it is - blatant and ill-willed bigotry? it's not even about keeping an open mind, it's just about not actively spitting vitriol towards every single instance of any mildly Christian behavior that dares to cross your hatemongering path

I'm with B-dude.  I'm one of those singers out there.  Not everyday, but when my class schedule allows me to.  I'm really appreciative of this conversation.  There's a lot of respect here that isn't often administered in conversations about religion or equally controversial topics.  Willow, i especially appreciate you bringing this up the way you did.  A very clear bias, but wanting to know where others stand.  Excellentopening to discussion.  And to everyone else who has been civil thus far, regardless of opinion, thanks.
No one who sings in Red Square is out there to preform, first off.  We don't practice because when we sing, its not for anyone in Red Square.  It is first and foremost an expression of worship to God.  We do it because we love God.  Call it cliche, but there it is.
As a Christian, its a great way to refocus my day.  Very often I get bogged down with school, friends' lives, etc.  Its hard to stay focused on what really matters.  That being God, what he's done for all, and all that he does, and the love relationship we have with him.
Its also an awsome way to express our faith.  If you think we're being meek and self-conscious, we ARE meek, or at least trying to be.  Humble, more like.  Self-Conscious, not so much.  In fact, I've never been so less self-conscious than standing in Red Square, hands raised, singing praises to God.  Honeslty.
As for being embarassed for us, please don't be!  Remember, we do this because we love God, not because we think that other people will think that waht we are doing is cool.  In the end, only what God thinks matters.  Humanity only holds so much worth, which is very little compared with the God we serve.

So, in sum: You guys are super cool for talking like this.  We are not performers, or superstars, and don't pretend to be.  We don't sing for people, we sing for God.  There are many reasons for singing, the first and foremost is to worship God.  We try to be humble (not easy for people), but we aren't self-conscious....or at least I'm not.  And we aren't embarassed by singing, because we sing to God, who loves us.  Be embarassed for us if you would like, but the Bible has loads of folks who became even more undignified than this while praising God.

I never said that I hate Christians or anything of the sort, and I am not judging them.  I don't want to talk to anyone about my current state of beliefs, nor theirs.  I did say that I want everyone to believe whatever they want to believe, and that the singing bothered me.  Not the people.  

In addition, it's just my opinion, and I would never expect them to stop.  

 sing the song "jesus is just alright with me" recorded by the byrds. it's fun and good and catchy... i would enjoy hearing that.

It bothers me more when people sing Beatles songs out of key.

Well, as Skyler pointed out, Red Square is a pretty central location.  Do you think it's convenient to go 20 minutes up the hill to the Arboretum in between classes?  Red Square is easy to get to, so much that people who don't know about it can just walk right up and join it.  We're not exclusive; part of the reason why we're out there is so that ANYONE can come up and join us and not have to be a part of CCF, the INN, or any other specific group.

Also, I guess it might appear like we're shy or embarrased or something, but the very LAST thing we are is forced.  We're out there because we want to be. Nobody is pressured to join us.  Same goes with Christianity.  Nobody is forced to join.  If somebody is forced to be a Christian, it's not Christianity... it's something fake and forced.  Like Marxism under Stalin.

And yeah, I really liked the comment that we shouldn't hide ugly people under bags, and we shouldn't mute the voices of bad singers.  There's nothing more selfish and invasive than just that--shutting something out because it's "ugly" or "unappealing."  If it comes from the heart, and if it's genuine, embrace it.  Consider your own heart.  It's the only part of you that really matters.

Consider how our singing makes you feel.  For God's sake, come on guys, it's just singing.  Are people so offended by singing?  Does the blooming tree offend you?  Are you offended by children playing and screaming on a playground (in Fairhaven, for instance)?  What action is MORE joyful than singing?  When was the last time you sang freely--joyfully--in public?

Russele, I would sincerely wish for you to find an identity in religion or non-religion.  A place where you can access your heart, hold no grudges, sing freely (either in public or in private).  You had a horrible experience--I can tell you that what you experienced was not Christ-like (which is the essence of Christianity... but the word Christianity is thrown around so much in so many different ways that even I don't like that word anymore).  From the bottom of my heart, I honestly do care.  Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I'm okay with that.  Heck, I'd even offer my own time to you, if you want that--I've done studies in comparative apologetics, philosophy of world religions, etc. so I'd be willing to talk about Christianity, Buddhism, ancient religions, science, etc.

Actually, I guess I'll extend that offer to anyone.  Just PM me.  I'm not looking for an argument, and I'm not looking for converts.  World religions is a topic that fascinates me, like a hobby of mine.

Okay, that's enough.  I'm fine, I have no religion, thanks for your wishing that I could find an identity.  I have an identity, and I can sing.  I just choose to do it in the shower, or at a concert, or in places where singing is expected and people are there because they want to hear said singing.  I love life, I have access to my heart.  What?  What are you talking about?  

Sing your hearts out.  I don't care.  I am an atheist who hates talking about religion.  So no, I wont be coming to you to talk about it.  But I don't hate you, and I don't hate anyone else who picks up their guitar and treks out to red square to be heard by all, because that would be insane.  

It's a nice day, ISN'T IT?

What scares me is how religion is playing such a big role in politics lately. Just my oppinion, but I would prefer they keep their singing in the choir at church. Religion can play many roles in a persons life including how to tell them what and how to think. Just lately religion scares the crap out of me. Just sing in your choir. You can shine there all you want.

So, I'm also one of those people who gets to sing in red square. And I'll tell you why I do it. I go to sing and make melody unto the Lord and to join with other people who are doing the same. I don't know everyone there, but a lot of those people I do know and I love them. I know their hearts and they aren't doing it for show, because they think they're so fantastic. They're doing it because they think their God is so fantastic... when a person meets God or more so he meets them, there is no going back from that encounter. And you don't care if you look akward or uncomfortable in red square. I may stand there with my hands in my pockets, but I actually feel quite comfortable and quite at home their. I know that they're going to be their and that I can walk up and just start singing. I consider it a real joy to be able to go stand in red square and sing praise. I cherish this freedom and I am going to exercise it, because I know that there are at least 50+ countries in the world where you could easily be thrown in jail for this activity. Even if we don't sing that great all the time, I feel that if we're singing for the Lord it doesn't matter how great we sound. Let us be fools for Christ.

And I do apologize for the apparent exclusiveness, but it's really not like that. I agree with Skyler -it'd be wierd if we were all facing out and singing out and staring people down as they walk across red square - I see how someone could find that offensive. But, if you ever feel like singing or just listening or even talking with someone just come over, there is always room.

I sing because I love the Lord. And I'm glad if people hear it, because I hope it would make them think or maybe bring them joy. But, my intention is not to sing for them, I'm not trying to convert anybody through singing. I don't want to hide my love and joy, for the Lord, so I sing. And if there are positive externaltites from that - terrific.

If anybody does have any questions I'd totally love to talk to you. I love getting others perspectives. you can e-mail me at kuchena@wwu.edu.

-Alyssa

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I personally do not enjoy hearing people sing religious hymns of any sort. In my opinion, it really falls more or less into the whole fiasco of that pro-life group that puts up those horrendous pictures in red square once a year, attempting to relate THE HOLOCAUST to abortion, which has me stupified that anyone would ever think of making a relationship between the worst atrocity in recent history, and a clump of cells. If I accidentally get a cut, I lose blood cells, and they die. Am I therefore a mass murderer because that was thousands to millions of cells? NO. That aside, and not to get sidetracked, the problem with both is that they forcefully attempt to impose a groups beliefs onto others, in a high traffic area, with little way to avoid it unless you want to take the long way around to get to and from class. I don't enjoy people imposing their religion on me, intenional or not. If you're singing a religious tune, great. Just please don't do it where it is not easily avoidable like Red Square. I know a lot of people who are in CCF, and I think they're great people, but I wish they wouldn't be so open about their religious beliefs and their diehard "Jesus is my life" viewpoint all the time. I'm not saying that Christianity is bad, or that religion is bad by any means. I'm simply asking for religious groups, as well as other activist groups to make displays in classrooms or in the PAC, where people who want to be a part of something, and those who don't have any interest or may be offended can make the choice to avoid it without being inconvenienced. I think it's a fair compromise. Besides, there are music rooms, sing there by all means, just don't sing in red square after I've finished an exam and my stress tolerance is low.