LaRouche supporters today on campus...

Perhaps you could post who exactly Larouche is and what his philosophy/political idealogies are and share that with everyone here and provide a constructive critique of why you believe they need help (and in what areas you believe they need help). 'They need help' is not constructive or useful to anyone reading this forum.

Thanks

i assumed it was self-explanatory. they were the people out in red square who had posters of obama as hitler along with one of bush and obama with a caption reading "dumb and dumber"

If you were like me, and somehow managed to go the entire day without seeing that, then no, it wouldn't be self explanatory :P, while I know some about LaRouche, others may or may not, which is why I asked you to give a little more than your original post had, thanks

for context: http://forum.wwu.edu/node/4176

i don't know much but I know I haven't heard anything postitive about them. hmmm....

One of those people (I didn't know they were those wacko LaRouche people) tried to give me one of those Obama with the Hitler moustache fliers and I refused and said, "That's really sad."  And it is.  And I saw another sign that says, "Hey Obama!  Where are the jobs?"  It's not like jobs can crop up overnight.  Keep in mind these are the same people who think Britain is the ultimate evil.  Who's serving them this crap and why are they eating it?

I find it extremely childish and narrow minded to put a photo up of the Obama as Hitler. Obama's presidental slogan was "Change", and change takes time in a capitalist system, it will come morans! grow the fuck up and learn/respect that, Obamas done immense things over his first 9 months and he still has 39 more months to go. Your crying about jobs? so are all of us but we still support our president because we know that change takes more than the flip of a switch! you will get your jobs in the next year because as we have seen our economy is improving and inflation is staying level which means more money is being put into the economy but we dont have to shell out more money for goods/services. I walked by the larouche supports and told them to fuck off because they have no idea what the "real world" is like. seriously grow up narrow minded overly obsessive liberals! SUPPORT OBAMA AND OUR COUNTRY!

Two words (that have been mentioned on this forum before): Godwin's Law.

Apparently, Obama visited the Queen of England, and she convinced him to become a Nazi. Or something completely ridiculous like that. And the environmental movement? Also a genocidal Nazi scheme. Healthcare reform plans? Nazi-backed euthanasia in disguise. Any substantial evidence to back up these claims? Psh, who needs that.

Honestly, you can put a Hitler stache on anyone and find some way to compare him or her to Nazis or evil people in general. I have very little respect for people that use these kinds of classic fear-inducing images for political gain.

IMO, LaRouche and his supporters are fear-mongering "sheeple."

people are totally overreacting. Obama hasnt even been the president for 10 months, he cannot fix all of the problems that Bush inflicted on our country overnight,,,, these things take time. that is why he will be president for at least four years. and Obama is hardly someone that should be compared to Hitler, after all Obama wants to end the war, THIS TAKES TIME, whereas Hitler started a war.. much like Bush. people just need to be patient, he may not of fixed the problems that you care the most about but he is fixing things, he isnt just sitting around the White House like people seem to think he is.

It's much easier to break a window than to fix a window but some people don't seem to understand that...

However, to the Hitler comparison, I hate how "nazi" and "hitler" comparisons are just thrown around so casually. I completely support a person's right to disagree with a politician, policies, etc. But drawing a mustache on Obama is ridiculous, immature, and ignorant. They should use their words to express their disagreements with Obama's plan in a civilized and intelligent manner. It seems like a Western education is being wasted on them

Obama should not be compared to Hitler. Bush should not be compared to Hitler. By doing so, Hitler's horrific crimes become a joke. And to those few people that are alive to remember it, it's not funny. We have no idea what it was like to live through those atrocities and no matter how bad it gets here, people who compare it to the Holocaust are crazy. These comparisons are disrespectful and it bugs me, no matter who its directed towards, whether I agree with his policies or not.

It was innappropriate to compare Bush and Hitler, they are obviously not any thing a like. I was merely trying to show how ridiculous it was to compare Obama to Hitler; in that Bush and Hitler do have that one small, yet obvious thing in common.

They're white? Because so are hundreds of millions of others and that's a poor line to draw any distinction between people, one based on race. (It should be duly noted that I completely agree with the aforementioned opinions against the LaRouche supporters, I just don't think even bringing up a similarity (assuming that my assumption of what your obvious comparison is) between Hitler and Bush is right, because, when it comes down to it Hitler and Obama have similarities too; they're human)).

While I think that LaRouche and his supporters are a bunch of brain-washed lunatics with absolutely no respect for anyone else's opinion I do agree with LaRouche on SOME things. I agree that our leaders are not so much elected as they are hand picked by a group of super elite and then spoon fed to as as either the red pill or the blue pill. I believe that Obama is very much the same old hat be-dazzled to look very much new and different.

People are treating Barack Obama like the Messiah, some people think he IS the Messiah, others think he's the antichrist, and some think he's Adolf Hitler.... so obviously he can't be all of those things at once, but he's not the incredible god-of-a-president that I find him to be made out as most of the time.

To the person that said he hasn't fixed all the problems that Bush caused... while I agree that Bush was a terrible president, and a horrible person, I think laying most of the blame on him as a person is way too easy. Dig deeper; why not examine the trilateral commission or any of the other large groups of influential people that get together behind closed doors to decide the future directions our country/the world will travel in. Why not look at the people in CONTROL of our money supply, who, admittedly, I think have actually done a pretty good job at staving off complete and total economic collapse. Does it mean I support or endorse the Federal Reserve or the way it conducts itself and engineers these boom/bust cycles? Not really.

In summary, the LaRouche guys are crazy, but even crazy's have roots tied somewhere deep down to a little bit of truth... I mean, why would they believe something with NO evidence at all? They have some, they just take it way too far...

Nice try, you Illegal Mexican Muslim Communist. Where is your birth certificate, Protestant Christian certificate, circumcision certificate, capitalist certificate, and not-a-terrorist certificate?

/sarcasm

I've talked with them at length on both friendly terms and less so after researching a bit.  Those poor kids have been duped into a political pyramid scheme cult.  They essentially give up everything to their cult leaders in order to live in a dormitory environment and attend nothing but more Larouche meetings so they are better able to go out and preach.  They had the same Dumb and Dumber posters for Bush and Clinton with Bush as Hitler.  They bought the lie and have been brainwashed by it.  It is sad.

Perhaps Bush is not like Hitler because I think Hitler was more of a "brains-behind-the-operation" kind of guy.  No, Carl Rove and Dick Cheney are more like Hitler.  And this isn't said as something funny.  It's true -- they wished to gain power by exploiting the people and making war for their own profit.  They, in fact, are more Nazi-like, what with their Homeland Security, basically another SS where they can arrest anyone they want to for no reason, and that stupid Patriot Act.

But you must admit, that while Obama is not the Messiah (I've never thought as much), he and his administration are a vast difference from the regime that ruled before, and that difference has made him much more of a savior than usual.  I think he's a great president and a great man.  I'm really glad he won the job.  Without cheating, too.

maybe you should actually read every thing that i said before jumping to conclusions about what i said, the statement you are referring to was my second statement, saying that it was innappropriate to compare them because they both STARTED WARS. so before you get preachy, maybe you should actually know what you are talking about.

Has anyone failed to notice the incredible irony in LaRouche using a swastika and hitlerstache?

To quote from wikipedia:

"LaRouche, like Mussolini and Hitler before him, borrowed from Marx yet changed his theories fundamentally. Most important, Marx's internationalist outlook was abandoned in favor of a narrow nation-state perspective. Marx's goal of abolishing capitalism was replaced by the model of a totalitarian state that directs an economy where ownership of the means of production is still largely in public hands. The corporations and their owners remain in place but have to take their orders from LaRouche. Hitler called the schema "national socialism". LaRouche hopes the term "the American System" will be more acceptable"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche

That seems like an extremely imba/POV quote to be from wp... not that I disagree with the general sentiment, but reductio ad fascistum is generally not how wpers should roll...

Last year I received a DVD from the LR PAC people which purported to prove that Newton was a fraud. The entirely of their argument rested on the case that, since you could derive Newton's laws from Kepler's, it proved that Newton stole Kepler's work and claimed it for himself. Math fail. *facepalm*

Also, logic fail. Seriously, someone who's taken an elementary logic class (or someone with common sense) can realize how illogical of a "proof" that is.

Lol, for some reason I thought of Kevin Bacon then: Kevin Bacon Linked to Al-Qaeda

a LaRocuhe supporter walked up to my shoves a pamphlet right in my face and says, "You may know how to party, but do you know how to start a revolution?"

He and his supporters are the craziest. Thier tactics do nothing to help gain support for their cause and have only convinced me that they are the new generation of hitlers beefstake nazis, who basically just need some extreme socially alternative cause to go crazy about.

Im not sure that the people picketing yesterday fully understand who they are representing. larouch has been around since the 60s and he has always adopted the dissenting opinion of the era. platforms that larouch advocates are typically underdeveloped. larouch made no effort to conceal his anti-Semitism in the 70s and into the 80s and during this time he was known for comparing Asian minorities to farm animals, frequently using the term faggot, and suggesting the forced removal of "the Jewish influence" in American politics. In fact some of the only other groups to ever indorse his policies have been; the KKK, WBC (the people that picket outside of soldiers funerals, fyi), Christian defense league, and of course, the neo-Nazis. Ironically the movement took a 180 somewhere around the early 90s and started accusing EVERYONE-ELSE of being Nazis most of all…. the queen of England!  Obama isn’t the first politician that he has likened to Hitler by the way. Oh also larouch was sentenced to 15 years in prison for fraud. 

P.S. I tried to start a conversation with some of those picketers yesterday about this matter, and for some funny reason the second I showed them that I was somewhat educated in their philosophy no one would talk to me. If you’re a larouch supporter pleeeeze! Let’s talk! I want to hear what you have to say, maybe you’ll be a little braver with your keyboard then your mouth.

No need to get hostile; if you read the entirety of my post I said that 'i assumed' without knowing exactly to which part you were talking about and was quite clear that I may have misinterpretated what you were talking about and apologized before hand. I'm sorry if you're offended that I gave you warning that I may have misunderstood what you said, especially when I said that I was on your side here, so it's not a matter of 'knowing what i'm talking about' but a matter of your statement being ambiguous. I wasn't being preachy, but I apologize if thats how you take it remember: "Be forgiving: We all make mistakes; if something offends you, express a genuine response while giving others the benefit of the doubt."

I believe it was a quoted within the wp entry, i.e. it's a reference from another source, not a direct edit for wp.

i think that i have a right to be hostile, if not defensive when you are basically calling me a racist. and you definitely should not be jumping to conclusions about stuff like that, if you had just taken the time to read both my posts, with only one person between them, you would of known what you were talking about rather than just making me look like a racist and in turn making you look stupid.

I read both your posts and was also confused as to what you were talking about... and I don't think he was calling you racist...

Anyways, I'm loving this thread :).  I always wanted to talk to them and be able to actually hold a conversation, but it's so hard when you are basically fighting on their terms in subjects they have been totally brainwashed in...

I in no way suggested that you were a racist and made it quite clear that that was not my intention, because I wasn't positive, due to the ambiguity of your statement, what exactly you were making a comparison between Hitler and Bush with, and while I admit that I didn't read the post before hand, that doesn't mean that there needs to be hostility between you and I for an honest mistake; as the Guideline I previously quoted stated, we make mistakes, be forgiving; my misreading in no way implies (read the bold) that I thought you were being racist, as Davd pointed out. There's no need to get all emotional; it was a earnest mistake on both our parts.

In any case, I don't think it's right to compare Hitler to Bush. Abraham Lincoln started a war, Teddy Roosevelt started a war, Franklin Roosevelt started a war. The commonality between all of these American presidents, including Bush, is that war was a reaction to an attack on American (The attack at Fort Sumter, the sinking of the USS Maine, the attack at Pearl Harbor, the attack on the Pentagon and the Twin Towers). Hitler, however, attacked preemptively in order to gain back what he believed what was the German people's rights; there's no similarity there, Bush didn't intend to claim sections of the Middle East for America (and while some may argue that it was all for oil, the rising costs of oil cause me to doubt that belief entirely).

So while I made a mistake in what I assumed to be your original comparison, I still disagree with your comparison as a whole.

LaDouche.

Sieg Heil!

Actually, he was voted into office with the campaign promise of increased war in Afghanistan and has doubled the amount of troops there.

ITT: Would-be history majors and tiring diatribes. I feel like if I hear any more Hitler analogies and historical "explanations", I may actually fall asleep.  We have been over this ground before, there is no need to retread it.

... When i see people getting all up in arms about something, i usually stay out of it, because in my experience when people have strong oppinions, there is no changing their minds. However, the discussion here seems to be geared towards building some sort of mutual understanding, as such i will make an exception and offer my opinion.

The LaRouche PAC, as i'm sure i do not need to tell anyone here, has the right to their free speach, just as much as anybody else. I am aware however, that the concern is wether or not they really should be exercising it in the manner that they do. Is comparing Obama to Hitler, or anyone to Hitler for that matter, responsible use of free speach?

I intend to circumvent a discussion of that point by offering an alternative. Everyone here already seems to have their minds made up, one way or another, as to whether somebody ever ought to compare anyone to Hitler. The consensus I've gathered is that it undercuts the tragic and large scale massacre that was the holocaust. If then, we are all aware of the scale and nature of the Holocaust, does it matter what the LaRouche PAC says. In my opinion it only speaks to their character, but there is no reason to publicly chastize them. We have all come to similar conclusions without the help of this forum, but is there something we lose when people like the Rouchies no longer come by and exercise the right to use their speach as they have? Obviously they aren't changin peoples minds, so I don't see why we should be worried about them. At the same time, i hear people responding to them with responses even more childish, the worst of which simply being "fuck you." Anyone who told the LaRouche people to "fuck off," has demonstrated their true cognitive deficiencies, because they gave everyone such a big opening that the most candid response in the world is well.... i don't know how to explain it any more clearly than by reiterating. CHILDISH. Then there is the more intelectual response. My friend told them they were perpetuating stereotypes, racist, making themselves look like idiot, and on and on and on. I personally asked them what sorts of responses they recieved and they told me people told them they ought to be ashamed of themselves and so forth. I think anyone who thinks that they are virtuous enough to pass judgement on anybody, ought to really reflect on themselves first. How can any of us spend our time complaining about the faults of others when we are all riddled with them. Reading through this forum i'm sure we can all find a few of our own. I agree, the LaRouche PAC is totally insane, but why does that even matter. Thats just my opinion. When i see them, if they make eye contact i smile and wave just like i would to any other person. If they want to talk to me about their politics, i politely decline and continue through my day knowing that as far as i'm concerned, my political perspective is good enough for me, and when people who get up in each others faces about politics still exist, no one will ever be willing to listen to each other. Everyone feels to exposed and too defensive.

For the record, i would like to reiterate, that personally i tend to agree with the sentiments expressed on this forum more than with those of the LaRouche PAC. At the same time I am embarassed to. I'm sure the LaRouchies yell and scream at people at times, but i've never seen it, and i doubt i will ever see it as often as i have seen people yell at and berate them for sharing their beliefs. I thought people like us believed what we believe because we are content with our own values without needing to judge each other, and i know i'm not perfect, i judge people all the time, but i try not to.

who the hell gives these people money???

I would just like to point out that the Nazis used negative propaganda like pictures and fliers (similar to the Obama/Hitler picture) to scare people into submission. Who's Nazi-like now?

nazis??? really???? how old are we?

The onus is not on LaRouche to prove the Holocaust actually happened.  It is on YOU.

Someone shows up at the place where you live and work depicting your President as Hitler and you think it's childish to tell them to "fuck off"?

This man is my hero: seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2009882084_gasparian16m.html

Are you suggesting that the holocaust did not happen?  How much of what you say do you actually believe?  Or are you just trying to be offensive?

Lol I think they are funny, and soo much more fun to mess with.

Go to Paul Bingham [Debate and Argumentation Prof] and let him know they are back. He would love to go ambush them with his class once more.

Last time he took us [his 235 class] out to talk to them, all but one supporter left....and boy, was he chewed to bits by logic and reason...

Oh man, I was hoping someone would be awesome enough to do that.

Yes towards the purpose of ending the war, as opposed to just dicking around like the previous administration.

 dudes liek larouche is so kool omg!!!1  i bawt won of his $59.99 cards sew eye ken half his numb4rr!!   and then i bawt his nazi bush and obama pitcher for only $499.99!!111  but it was a donation so theres no tax on it.

Okay, please forgive my immature fun in the last post.  Seriously, though, it is absurd to tell anyone to fuck off because it just shows your immaturity or your inability to control your emotions.  I believe it would be far better to refrain from cussing altogether and calmly explain to them that you believe their actions are insulting, disgusting, and that they are hurting their own campaign more than helping it.  Clearly, they want to get people riled up and whether you realize it or not, you're giving them what they want.  It's the whole idea of 'martyrdom' or 'persecution'.  They feel like they're doing a good job standing up for what they believe in when people tell them to 'fuck off' or use other obscenities toward them.

Subject Line is relevant.

There is no need for 'us' to prove that the holocaust happened. It did. It's a fact. At one time thousands of survivors could tell you the atrocities they suffered. Thousands of former german soldiers could tell you what they were ordered to do. Thousands of American and British and French soldiers could tell you what they discovered. The fact that the German country has WW2 Education as a major part of their history education, and that they are damn sure to tell their kids about the atrocities of the german party, about the holocaust, is proof enough that it happened. People over here think the nazi symbol is something to throw around, some children even think it's cool to draw it on stuff; in Germany you'd get your ass whooped if you were caught drawing the swastica on anything.

History is written by the victors, and you'd think that the American people as the victors of the war would be smarter. It's the atrocities of the Nazi party that made WW2 and the war against Germany so much of what it is today. When talking about wars most people ignore the first World War, it was, in essence, just another war, like any other. It's the atrocities of the Nazi party that really made WW2 the symbol that it is today and for people to just throw away or even suggest that the Holocaust didn't happen, or that the  persecutions and executions within the nation didn't happen, it's just plain stupidity.

I'd say to prove to me that there wasn't a holocaust, but I know that no one can; the overwhelming evidence of the event makes it so that even a blind man would find it impossible not to believe. So while LaRouche may choose to ignore it, he's still got to prove to his mooks that it didn't happen and only an idiot could believe that it didn't.

I cannot believe how off topic this thread has become.

Considering that the OP was "They need help" and the discussion has been on the fallicies that LeRouche and his follows have made, it hardly appears off topic

some one said, that at one time you could hear from thousands of holocaust survivors about the atrocities( or something along those lines)...

i just want to let you all know that on November 9 at 6pm you can hear a Holocaust survivor speak for free in Arntzen Hall 100, all you have to do is reserve your seats in advance, there is/was information on this even on the wwu main website... i hope there are still seats available if anyone wants to go

How about the Bush Regime preemptively invading Iraq?

Also, Teddy Roosevelt did not start the Spanish American war.  He was not even in office.