Mediocrity

Well i'm sure there are plenty of reasons, good or not, for why this is. The one it sounds like you're alluding to is that some students are just lazy, which is probably true in some cases. But maybe some people don't value good grades as much as others do, so they do the minimum while making the most of the rest of their college experience. Or their personal life is not solid so school is on the backburner. Or they underestimate the difficulty of the material and bomb the first test. Or they're not paying for it so they don't really have to see the consequences of not putting the work in. Or they are working their asses off to afford school so they don't have time for homework, sleep through classes, etc.

In any case, i know that even though I tend to get good grades, i get bad grades because I don't put the time in for various reasons. Some are my fault, others are out of my control.

These days i've been pretty lazy with school...its my last quarter in my major. I've been in school for 19 years of my life and I'm ready for something else for a while. Or at least a different subject.

For some reason, professors never confront students at WWU. 

In my entire ~3 years, I only saw one professor get mad at a person for being late one time.  Students were constantly allowed to come late, disrupt class, have unintelligent/unprepared responses and write at a 4th grade level.

This cuts both ways.  For the marginally gifted or the driven student, they are practically handing out A-grades and many under utilized resources and programs exist.

Compare to law school.  If you show up a second late, you get thrown out. If your cell phone rings, you get thown out.  If you answer a question stupidly, you get thrown out.  If you possibly have not read, you get thrown out.  If you get thrown out five times in a four month semester, you fail.  Bottom 15% of class will not return next semester.  Mediocrity is so uncommon.

I'm not coming here and racking up debt to become some enlightened person. I'm here paying with my time and money to get a degree. Because of that, if I'm interested in something then I'll naturally put in more effort, but if I'm caught up and my knees hurt and I don't feel like going to class if it won't hurt my grade, I won't go.

Don't get me wrong, I take my education very seriously... but being a good little boy and going to class every day and repeating everything Teacher says is not "education" to me.

Mediocrity is good. The unmediocre shine all the brighter. :D

It bugged me at first, too.  I figured things should be harder in college and students should compensate by working harder, because, of course, we all actually give a damn - we're in college, after all. Moreover, I really did feel that professors, by virtue of their doctorate, should be more or less revered and certainly shouldn't have to work as hard as they do to help all of their students merely get a passing grade. Rather, the students should be held accountable, more or less, for their own education or they should be seen as unfit for a degree and should wash out.  Elitist, I know.

But then I realized that we go to a god-damned public school. All too many of the students are simply interested in completing with a degree and the state is also simply interested in the school passing as many students as possible with a degree.  Seriously, Western really does seem to have pretty low standards. How could you expect all the students who are accepted to surpass the same mediocrity you mention when that's how they made it into Western in the first place? Although I have to admit that this statement isn't founded on anything but my own observations and expectations. None of this is to say, however, that Western doesn't have pretty incredible professors or academic resources.  I really do feel that students have the ability to just get by here, but they also have the potential to get a whole fricken lot out of their education, and the onus truly is on the individual to do just that.

Also,

this quote annoys me.

Hi Finn,

I am generally impressed with my fellow students, but there are horrible class differences. Many WWU students, blessed with parents not seriously suffering, can afford to party, like young people always will and do. While many other WWU students must grow up quickly,  because their tuition causes great sacrifices to their families. And many WWU students must do it all by themselves, with outside jobs and maybe even babies to care for. WWU students are racking up big debts to start out life with...or for older students, to end life with. Many departments appear to be training students for corpoate fields that no longer exist. Jobs? Future?.

How depressing. But no need to anti-depress the masses, rather we might reform instead.

The professors put in 60 hour weeks and the competition in the academy is evil - they burn out quickly. Lots of wonderful professors at WWU yet some get cynical about how they ended up in a State College, when they should have been at Oxford. On the other hand, they are lucky to be college professors. Scared of being fired.

Obviously, I feel, WWU needs to let go the top 2 or 3 dozen highest paid administrators. I support the Faculty Union. And there are thousands of students in their prime here. So much energy and power...

Kamalla Rose Kaur

I decided after a while that we should only expect a mediocre majority in a system which only cares about increasing the number of college graduates, not increasing their quality. Furthermore, I have decided not to worry about it because it's this same quality of our educational system that provides a means for me to attend college at all, through financial aid

There are all of these "alarming" statistics which tell us that college graduates aren't finding work, and many are quick to point to our ailing economy, but is there more to it? Seriously, not only do some student slack off while at Western, but some even commit criminal acts: robbery, vandalism, burglary.

Coming to Western represnts my entrance into the middle-class from extreme poverty, and when I arrived I was startled by what I saw in a few of my classmates: a immature, elitist, shallow, and hypocritical collection of my supposed peers. However, there are a lot of really great people at Western, and I am guessing this issue is a lot bigger than just higher ed.

I'm glad I received thoughtful replies instead of flames.

There are so many opportunities to study and get help.  If students don't follow through on them, a decision has been made to accept failure by default.  I cannot understand choosing to fail.

Here's a rundown of some of the points that brought up:

1) University vs. socialization

For those students that are younger, university is definitely an opportunity to spread your wings and grow emtionally as well as educationally.  But that is not mutually exclusive with studying, you can do both at the same time.  And if the student needed an opportunity to experience adult life, why not take a gap year and travel or work?  This sounds like an excuse for people who are not committed to learning.  If you're not committed, do something else!

2) Learning vs. good grades

Yes, there is a difference between good marks and knowledge.  But if you truly study the material, the likelihood of getting a decent mark is significantly higher.  I just don't believe that many students are trying to learn the material.

3) Just getting the degree at the end

Once again, this is simply settling for mediocrity.  It's essentially arguing that you don't give a damn about the information and/or learning;  all you care about is the perception of others.  Ultimately, you're only limiting yourself.  I've hired four students after they graduated from WWU and three of them still work for me.  But I'm not going to hire someone unless I see serious committment to their area of expertise, and that means more than a degree.  Past accomplishments are  good predictor of future ones.  If you can't get good grades, what have you done that shows you can be successful?  You can graduate with a 2.0!  In what manner is that indicative of success?

4) Interest vs. requirement

While this is certainly true, it's also largely superfluous.  You're going to have to do things you're not interested in.  Learning how to put considerable effort into subjects you wouldn't normally, is a skill and should be practiced.  And this just reinforces the premise that many students are lazy. 

5) Public vs. private education

I've studied at Reed, University of California Berkeley, University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Queensland University of Technology, and WWU.  Both Reed and Berkeley are widely considered to be academically excellent and rigorous and both exhibited mediocrity.  Reed is private and Berkeley is public.  There's a difference in private and public schools, but people are lazy or don't work at both.

6) Class differences in education

This is holistically true.  More wealth and education in the family definitely translates into willingness to learn.  But exceptions are possible.  My father dropped out of high school in the tenth grade and my mother is working towards her first bachelors degree now.  We were poor and I paid for *all* of my university edcuation myself, either by working, getting scholarships or taking out loans.  Not being responsible for the cost of education certainly contributes to a willingness to fail.  But it seems like there is a greater issue at work.  As a society, how do we value education and the opportunities it provides?  Given the emphasis on money and success, it seems counter-intuitive that education is such a low priority.

Finn

Your annoyance annoys me.

Mind telling me why you're annoyed?

In response to Lo-Lee-Ta:

It bugs the hell out of me when people take a dump on a school just because it's public. Some people chose public school because they can receive an education that is just as good as that at a private school without paying as much. And are you really willing to say that no, you aren't interested in "completing with a degree", you are above all of that? Come on, be realisitic. Furthermore, if Western  has suchhh low standards, then why did you come here? And could you please quantify/ explain some of these "pretty low standards" ? Sure, people are lazy and whatnot, but you are going to encounter this "mediocrity" everywhere
 

Athletics i feel plays a huge role in westerns some students view of just being average. A lot of students here are admitted to western based on that they will be on a athletic team. These students often feel privileged or a kind of entitlement. I feel that we should restrain ourselves from admitting students on the basis that they will be a good addition to a athletic team. I  remeber talking to a couple of vollyball players who were freshmen and they were boasting about how they all take classes in which their teammates took the previous quarter or year. They also had a the past intro to lingustic tests. I feel that this is a commponent.

Man, I'm sorry if you think I'm taking a dump on Western.  I thought I was pretty clear about how I think that we have a pretty awesomely academic school, especially by way of professors.  I can't express how much I respect and admire them.  A point I kind of allude to, but never actually make, is that our professors seem really great and accessible to me (I don't know how it would be for me at other schools, but this is how I feel here) in part because it is a public school, and they do have to focus on helping every student pass.  Every professor I have had has truly cared about getting everyone to come out of their class with a passing grade, and at least some understanding for the subject matter.  This used to piss me off when I figured that my education in the class was being cut so that things would be easier and simpler for those students who never showed up to class, until I realized that, like I said, we have great professors and tons of academic opportunities that I needed to be more willing to seek out.  And so I did.  My education, I feel, has been all the greater for it.  I stand by what I said about public schools. 

I never said anyone here wasn't interested in 'completing with a degree', and I especially don't believe I made any indication that I'm so superior as to be above such trivial matters, as you imply. All I said was that some people are truly only interested in completing with a degree.  It's a good thing, I'll contend, because they are being forced an education through the process, but that's just it, in a lot of cases it seems like a lot of work goes into forcing these students to accept their education and to get them to pass. 

I love Western, but that doesn't mean it isn't pretty easy to get in. Again, as I'm pretty sure my last post mentioned, this is a purely subjective assessment, though I'm not sure that doesn't make it valid. Well, at least to me.  Moreover, Western lets in more students than it should, not even based on academic standards- just based on capacity.  How could it descriminate too much?

Also, why question my motives to come to Western?  Honestly, I don't see the relevance.  Perhaps I was afraid to leave Bellingham, maybe I screwed up academically in high school and couldn't get in anywhere else (low standards), or maybe I felt like I would receive an education that was just as good as elsewhere without paying as much.  Why does it matter?  I go to Western, I like going to Western, and I intend to graduate from Western.  With a degree.

 I think this thread was made because someone is mad that another who doesn't work as hard got a better grade. Some people are just naturally smart, get over it. 

Not everyone can do that. An example: Both my girlfriend and I had scholarships that didn't allow us to take a year off...and that's going to be true for many students. In addition, that means explaining to parents you want to take a year off, which for many students whose parents are paying for college, is a daunting request.

I somewhat agree with you on this one. Actually learning the material can,in my experience, significantly help your grade. However, this type of learning also takes time and energy, and is aided by that intrinsic motivation that comes with interest in the subject. Little interest in the subject means that its going to take a lot more work to learn the same amount as someone who finds the subject interesting. (I see you discussed this further later on in your post)

I don't know how I feel about this...In my experience, a classroom setting is good for a certain amount and type of learning, but a hands on approach will always help me learn more. While I know that i will learn a lot about accounting in my classes, I expect the job experience to be where I do a majority of my learning. Thus, its tough to get motivated in the classroom. Like most things, however, its going to be different for different people. Someone with a learning disability is gonna have a much different experience learning in the classroom than someone else.

Yes, that's going to take effort to really learn a subject, however if someone just got off an 8 hour shift thats helping to pay for classes and they have to change their mindset, deal with exhaustion, and forget the rest of what's going on in their lives, can you still be upset that they instead rely on just memorizing the material to vomit it out the next day? If someone is balancing other classes with extracurriculars, jobs, and/or children, asking students to simply power through it doesn't seem like a realistic expectation to me. 

5) Public vs. private education

I can see what you're getting at here, however Berkeley may not be the best example of your typical public university, which is what I think lo-lee-ta was getting at.

I think ultimately what I'm trying to say in my post is that everyone comes from a certain background and has their own experience, so I can't say with certainty whether their grade performance is directly related to whether or not they are motivated to learn.

I'm going to throw it out there, I'm one of those students you would likely consider mediocre due to my GPA. I don't get great grades, I've been on academic probation, and I don't always give certain subjects my best efforts. I did take certain GUR courses simply because I was told they were easy. A lot of that is due to the fact that I was not interested in subjects like anthropology or art history. During tht time however, I did a lot more outside of the classroom to foster a diverse number of interests, and I also learned a lot about things directly related to my major. To develop my interests and foster a sense of community amongst the students here, I helped to start the paintball club (although it is more or less dormant now, due to a lack of time/money) and am in the process of trying to create a group for firearms enthusiasts. My involvement in Baja SAE has given me lots of hands on experience, and has exposed me to ideas that would have never been presented to me until I was farther into my major course of study. I have learned far more being outside of the classroom then I have being inside of one since coming to Western. I believe that my experiences make me something far greater than mediocre, despite my 2.22 GPA. Being done with my GURs and only having electives and major requirements left is likely to improve that number too since my interest will be greater then it has been.

I don't think that's the point. 

When professor fosters an environment in which many students feel entitled to show up at class without preparing, the people who are prepared lose.  Instead of analyzing and having an academic exploration of materials, the class passes with the instructor fleshing basic outlines of what should have been read out of the people who did prepare.  So, prepared student learns nothing and becomes rightly frustrated.

This scenario was a real problem in upper division humanities courses.

This whole notion of defining yourself by acceleration with in an institution in nonsense. I am a boarder line non-traditional student who came back to school because I broke my body climbing in Alaska and could no longer work in my trade as a concrete finisher. I saw my own need to return to school in order to find a means to make a decent living as a sign that I was weak and slowing down. You see, I think that people that need to enter into institutions that holds their hands and make them interested in things are pathetic and weak; yes, I joined your club, but I am not proud. People who are truly not mediocre do not need good grades in a formalized setting to make them great worth while individuals, the fact that we all need to be sheltered within the academic system makes us all mediocre by default. If you're so great, do it all yourself. This might seem like a large order, but that is because most of us are mediocre... I am. The only people that are not are the ones that can create their own reality and drive after exactly what they want without the push of financial gain or parental approval. now get over yourself, you are medicore, even with your good g.p.a.. This is the concequence of a partly egalitarian society. About one in every 8 billion people is the next Newton, and that is about what it takes to not be mediocre, otherwise, you are just a little more clever than the next person, so have fun tinkering in your garage or writing on your laptop in a starbucks like a jerk. My grades are good, but that is only because I have become a scared old man with a lot of injuries who only wants to survive. To the rest of you, you are not your GPA, so never mind this guy and his notion of excellence. Live however you like, then you may approximate your own kind of excellence.

This mediocre argument for mediocrity could be vastly improved with one or two proofreads.  Although, that might be considered oxymoronic....

That one poster was probably right; you seem to just be venting about people who do less work than you, and how could they have this kind of attitude as an adult, and why did this person get a grade as good as mine or better, etc. Or maybe you feel the need to look down on other people? Doesn't matter.

But I'll address your post anyway. This participation rate of mediocrity is actually very low. Every class has those five to ten people that never show up except on exam days, and probably don't do much homework. Why they don't show up to class? Who knows? Apathy? Personal conflicts? Unaware of the value of post-high school education? Prior obligations? Inflexible work schedule? Well, here's the bottom line. They paid for the classes, they can do or not do whatever the want, at the end of the day. If someone only shows up on exam days and Aces them while participating students struggled for a C+, then good for them! It means they must have learned something, somehow (textbook, research, note sharing, study groups, whatever). If someone pays for the class and completely tanks through absence and poor exam scores, that's too bad. But you don't know why these people aren't around, and it's really none of your business.  As for the people that are physically in class but have nothing to show for it, it's still their money, their choice, ill-advised as it might be. In addition, neither of theses cases are common! Most people here will not accept any level of mediocrity. Those who are truly indifferent to learning don't last long anyway, but don't be so concerned with the actions of others. If someone makes it through college even when often not in attendance, well done.

If you like a grading system based more heavily on participation and attendance, that's basically the outline for a middle school gym class. Obviously, and admittedly, high-pressure exams are far better way of proving that you've actually learned anything. If you do poor because you don't care, other people need not know or care. I show up to class every day because I learn much more from lectures and other students than from textbooks or notes, and also because I really, really care about my education. When someone puts in half the effort I put in and still gets my grade, I never notice because it pretty much never happens that way! If it ever has happened, yippee? When I see the few people making regrettable decisions, like blowing off studying, even skipping exams, and burning thousands of dollars during the academic year, I don't have time to ask myself "Why?" or the time to judge them because I've got 16 credits to worry about, and what other people do with their time and money is still not my business.

Professors allegedly set their own grading standards, but the majority of professors simply conform to the unwritten law of C/C+ centered grade distribution. If you're making the assumption that the bell-curve-like results imply a large presence of mediocrity, that, quite honestly, is bullshit. I've also talked to professors myself about this. One assistant professor admitted that his colleagues informed him that his class average was too high, so he had to knock some people down a peg. I've known many students who did everything in a class only to manage C+/B. Are they "mediocre" because they didn't get a high grade, and fell on the peak of the bell-curve/histogram of the class? No, they're not mediocre, because they care about their education and put in real effort into their lives.

Your implication that there exists some kind of collective acceptance of mediocrity is an insult to nearly every student on campus.
 

hhhmmm...

• I have a 4.0
• I've earned 100% on all assessment in my classes this quarter
• I'm a national merit scholar scoring in the top half of the top 1% of all students in the United States
• I test 3-1/2 standard deviations above mean

For some reason... I don't think jealousy provided my motivation in posting this thread.

You're right though, some students will naturally perform better in an academic environment.  I'm not addressing those students, or those with learning disabilities who struggle, for that matter.  I am concerned about those students who clearly don't put in effort, are lazy, and take their educational opportunties for granted.  Why is that any of my business?

University, like society, has a social contract that underpins its existence.  We come together in this environment to support learning and research, to open our minds and our hearts to new ideas and concepts.  We can just as easily study on our own, and many do, but what sets university apart, is the coming together of many to create a greater whole.  When you're in a class populated with knowledgable and thoughtful participants, the level of discussion is orders of magnitude improved.  The benefit derived doesn't just devolve to the prepared students, it extends to everyone in the class.  Likewise, if Western students choose to direct their energy at academia, how many years do you think it would take before we would develop a reputation for excellence?  Before we draw brilliant new students, professors and grant money?  If expecations are constantly set low and we strive only to meet them, we draw the entire student body down.  When we decided to attend a university, we made a commitment to acadmia.  Even if your commitment is only for four years, live up the responsibility implicit in your decision and work to a level commensurate with that commitment.  When students don't prepare or do the work, they dont just let themselves down, they let the professor and their fellow students down.

Look, I don't care if you get an A, C or D as long as you work to the best of your ability.  If you're making a decision to be here, then follow through.  Yes, there are external factors that effect our capacity in a classroom.  I work full-time and I study, so I make choices and prioritize my life appropriately.  I also have a very serious chronic health condition that's left me hospitalized too many times to count, once for 56 days and once left me unable to walk for eight months.  Shit happens, but that doesn't mean it should be an excuse.

You're right, supporting and working towards all aspects of the university provide benefit.  The work you do outside the classroom is vital and important.  That also part of the social contract that we engage in when we come to university, but it's outside my argument.  I'm trying to start a dialogue about the academic side of the contract.  Generally, I think students should study and participate in some of the myriad of opportunities available to them during their time here.

I don't think anyone at this school believes they are weak or a failure simply because they are attending university.  In fact, I would tend to applaud anyone who has made the effort to come here in the first place, irrespective of their success as a student, including you.  Education, in my opinion, is one of the most valuable and important paths that anyone can embark on.

I'm sorry if I've offended you; that's not what I'm trying to accomplish.  And my own study outside the university or my research are not relevant to this discussion.  None of us needs to be the next Newton; I don't have that expectation.  But we are, to use your own words, members of the same club, and we are all here to learn. I'm sure there are many people out there who put the least amount of effort into everything they do. That's never struck me as a good choice.  Do you feel that it is?

Fade, as I stated above, there is an inherent benefit to the student body as whole when participation is significant.  We should all be concerned about getting the best level of education possible.  When other students choose to not contribute, it harms everyone.

I've attended university under both the American and British style of teaching.  In the commonwealth, your entire grade is designated by your score on the final examination.  You get a mark from 1-6 (and rarely a 7), with a 1 being low fail and a 6 being distinction.  Generally, to get a 6, you need to achieve greater than 65% on the final exam.  I've earned a 7 (high distinction) once, and I'm not really sure what I did to get it.  If you get mostly 6's, you'll graduate with first class honours, the equivalent of summa, magna and cum laude, placing you in the top 5% of your class.  I guess that's mostly superfluous.  My point is that the level of education and retention is not maximized through high pressure examination.  While you may think grading based on participation and work throughout the term is similar to a high school gym class, I can tell you from personal experience that continual marking and hands on teaching are significantly better.  And there is a definite trend in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand towards continual marking.  It's just difficult to overcome inertia.

I don't believe anyone that puts the effort in is mediocre, irrespective of the mark they earn.  If a student works for the mark they earn, they have shown personal excellence and contributed to the university.  On the other hand, if they didn't put effort in, they simply consumed resources that would be better served by someone who does put the effort in.

Once again, my intention is not to insult you or any other student.  I do want a dialogue about this issue, and even better, I'd like to see proactive steps taken to improve the situation.  We as a community, needs to assess how and why we value education.

Finn

Hi Finn,

My situation is more like pearcer4. Your own Mum is in college too, you mentioned.

WWU's students in your twenties  all seem like wonderful people to me, I am rooting for you all.

Likewise your professor's judge Western's youth culture differently too. You are products of your upbringings. Coming out as adults. You seem to be just about the same as the last batch, and the batch before them. 

Down thorugh many autumns of my life Western students have returned to Bellingham. Nobody seems to be complaining about your peers more than last decade's students.

Finn, I applaud your quest for excellence. It is it's own reward. Your parents and extended family instilled wonderful habits into you before you were three. You are smart and gifted.

But careful...many have brains that are brilliant in specific rather than general ways. It takes time to figure out what we are gifted at. We don't all have your advantages - in the scope of our brains nor in our early childhood training. And being smart limits you in ways you don't understand and we are too stupid to explain.

 No need to be humble. You work very hard and you deserve everything you get.

But never forget that many around you are shut down and numb. Let them bloom slower.

Bloom slower.  Everyone. No rush here. No jobs for you right now anyway.  We aim for age 25.  We pray folks in our culture figure out who they are and how they can shine, how they can best contribute, by 25.

And by the time you reach 30 - hey!  Get a life.

From age 15-25 people need to be given power and lots of hands on education. Western has gone down in quality. Jerry Flora and class disembowed a seal lion - outside of course! Everyone learned so much from that! Children ran around this campus. Seniors retired into Fairhaven College dorms and the organic gardens here were amazing!

Beware the hidden corporate agendas, especially in the sciences here. Many professors here did not themselves receive liberal educations. They have been called to this land,but they do not yet belong to this land. Not like you and your family Finn. Watch your back.

Kamalla Rose Kaur

Too true.

Of course people are going to settle for mediocraty, especially if it is what they are used to. It's easy. Not that I agree with it, I want to be successful in what I do and take advantage of the opportunities given to me, but many people are used to settling for not exactly what they want because it is easy for them.

If you expect people to not be lazy, then you need to re-examine human nature entirely.

So your answer is to revise expectations down?  Expectations definitely result in disappointment, and that's what I'm feeling now.  Unfortunately, we generally rise only to the level of expectation, so lowering them seemsl like a clear way to worsen the situation rather than improve it.

As a student of science, I am disturbed by your baseless accusations. There are so many things wrong with these couple sentences here that I'm not quite sure if this is satire. I pre-emptively invoke Poe's law in the event that it is.

Western has an outstanding program in the sciences and science education. And yes, we do (*GASP*) have dealings with corporations. Some professors do research affiliated with certain corporations. Some have goverment agency links. But "hidden corporate agendas"? I don't think you actually know what kinds of research are being conducted here, much less are privy to supposed corporate conspiracies that you so casually and offhandedly claim to exist. Would you mind sharing with us what these agendas are, or do you think they exist simply because in your mindset corporations are by definition sinister?

This isn't even a liberal arts school. This used to be a normal school, that is, a professional school for training teachers. Now it is a comprehensive public teaching university. Nowhere is there stipulation that a liberal education should be mandated, or even desired. Furthermore, you seem to be making the claim that these professors whom you mentioned are... untrustworthy... because of their lack of a liberal arts degree. I respect professors based on how well they know their craft, not how well they know their classics (unless their craft is knowing the classics, of course.) I need not elaborate further, for the ridiculosity of your insinuation is fairly self-evident.

Do I smell a hint of nativism? "They don't stand for what I do, and now they're coming over to ruin our land!!!" Really? Forgive me if I start becoming less civil in tone here, because I hate people like that. Here are some points which I believe are pertinent:

1. You don't own this land.
2. You don't speak for the inhabitants of this land.
3. You don't get to dictate who belongs to this land and who doesn't.

From the invading hordes of orcs moral-less, baby-eating, science-worshipping, corporation-consorting mad scientists diabolically trying to scourge the idyllic, utopian eco-paradise that is the Shire Washington, no doubt?

When I posted that little ditty above I was, to be honest, inebriated (a fairly mediocre state of mind to be in, and a fairly mediocre excuse... but enough of that word), and although I don't normally add anything to any of these forums,  I somehow ended up here, sounding off at random in a poorly written fashion. Anyhow, I think a few amendments and points of clairity are in order:

1. Coming back to school has been a great experience, and learning is (and really always has been) one of my favorite things to do

2. I don't really have a whole lot of respect for people who put no effort into their education. However, I see education as more than just being limited to the educational system.

3. I look forward with great anticipation to getting out and working in my field. It is gonna be one of the greatest things I have ever done.

4. You don't have to be the next Newton or Einstien to not be mediocre, but it helps your cause quite a bit.

That said, my larger opinion on this is still that you GPA does not necessarily determine your level of mediocre on the mediocre scale, which I think is actually a logarithmic, but I can never remember that kind of stuff with a great deal of certainty.  I just know that when I hear about people that do amazing things, all of which somehow spring forth organically from the individual, I am always more impressed than when I hear about the person that got a good job because of some sterile diploma.... really, I don't care about this debate, I just feel I should reply because you still have to fix the problems you create while dunk, which is why we have abortions. My heart is just not in this one. I will leave you to your foruming.

I don't think other peoples' grades were ever the point of the discussion, and I agree that they are not a determining factor in the quality of an individual.  

What grinds my gears is a regurgitative level of discourse.  I blame professors for being too spineless to call people out for anyting at all, not the least of which is putting proper time or thought into courses.

Since you've given us license to look at your previous writing and laugh, I must say that I have been handed work of that quality or lower on peer review day in multiple upper division English(!)/humanities courses.  Such an exchange constitutes a misappropriation of class time parallel to the aforementioned low standards by the same professors, who, frankly, don't seem to care.

Hi Miborovski,

Yes. Proud of my roots! Pacific Northwesterners belong to this Land. Most everyone else has arrived in the last twenty years. Many newcomers respect PNW culture - and soon they become Pacific Northwesterners too, by dedicating themselves to this Land.

Bellingham Washington beams bright as the Greenest town in the USA. Oh well,maybe a couple Northern CA and several Oregon towns and Vermont villages out-shine us, but still!

WWU might be proud of this, because their graduates are civic leaders and activists!

As for science and scientists at WWU - Oh La Di Da. They might speak for themselves, you know. WWU professors might decide to voulnteer a bit of their time to clean up Bellingham Bay? WWU students could volunteer our labor to cleaning up the Bay. How much brawn and brain might we muster to do the right thing at the right moment?

Tell your wonderful professors to come on out! Send articles to NW Citizen, for instance. Students too. 

But, OK, OK... I want to believe you. You are claiming that you are NOT still being trained for jobs that don't exist ? So what are WWU scientist's up to that creates new jobs? Please share.

Are journalism students starting up independent presses? Where? Please post the links. The publishing industry - crash and burning. No jobs there.

So again, where are WWU amazing scientists? Many  remember the famous environmental scientist who wandered around with the little button that read, "I am willing to die for other species."  They might pop in here and share some stories? 

Also many in this region miss when KUGS radio was completely run by WWU students. Do WWU students have independent radio stations?

Meanwhile, I still think Finn needs to watch his back because he is a student leader and his great grandparents homesteaded this very land. His great grandmother - a truly fantastic regional writer. The cabins his ancestors built are being left to rot by WWU administrators. If they bulldoze them???? They won't risk that. Could cause a riot.

But things rot quickly around these parts...

www.nwcitizen.us/entry/all-quiet-on-the-western-front

Mib,

I think this is a reference to my family.  The land that forms the Western campus was my family's homestead.  Their cabins still sit on the fairhaven campus.  Obviously, we don't own this particular land anymore, but there is a historical precedent.

Finn

Which I never said or suggested, nor was urbanization ever mentioned by me. So much for your journalistic integrity, there...

You didn't really address my point. There isn't anything wrong with being proud of a place. However, when you start accusing others of not belong to the place simply by virtue of them being of a different mind than you, that I have a problem with.

I am speaking for them at the moment since this forum is, unfortunately, underutilized by faculty.

It is quite presumptious (and quite offensive) of you to insinuate that WWU professors and students who not volunteer, Bay cleanup or otherwise. There is no way you can know that, other than with a pre-formed opinion that coincides with your previously-expressed nativism and exclusionism.

Scientists are scientists, they do science. They are not responsible for your job, mine, or anyone's. Additionally, jobs is not the be all and end all of economic problems. If you truly wanted full employment, please move to a subsistance economy in which you WILL be engaged in productive manual labor for 18 hours a day.

Myself? I am being trained for a job that most certainly exists, if I am good enough to get that job.

In the unlikely event that I may change your mind, are you aware that the biotech industry around the country has been one of the first to have net hiring? I certainly do not see your NW Citizen blag creating any jobs.

In case you haven't noticed, the economy is in a depression. Once again, I don't see you coming up with a solution to how to create more jobs, other than finger-pointing at scientists and journalism students. These are rather poor targets for scapegoating. At least attacking the MBA program would be less ridiculous.

With one fell swoop you managed to insult all the professors of science here. People don't like to be accused of orporate conspiracies and "dey took our jerbs!" I don't think you'd like to hear what they might have to say to you. It's a great mystery why they aren't all tripping over themselves trying to get an interview with an obviously luddite writer for a tabloid-quality publication...

 What are they going to do to him, perform extralegal rendition and force him to sign over his log cabin under torture?

I'm sorry, are you seriously claiming that science-based jobs are extinct or endangered, and that science professors here at Western don't care about the environment?

I mean, really?

Have you perhaps googled "fasted growing jobs" lately?  The BLS has some great top picks, and depending on which category of education we look at, anywhere from 55 - 100% of the growing job markets are science-based.

And I suppose it's unnecessary to point out that an Environmental Science education is far more applicable to successful Bay preservation than, say, a Creative Writing education, as much as I champion good writing....

Hi j1,

I imagine that WWU environmental (and other) scientists care about the environment.

Yet WWU plans to build down by the Bay - closer yet to the hundreds of tons of mercury left there by GP. DANGER DANGER

SOooo I imagine WWU's environmental scientists have a plan?

But I haven't heard it yet - have you?

That seems very strange given the history of WWU scientists - what happened? 

I admire scientists. Not competing with them.  Trying to join them in cleaning up Bellingham Bay.

I'll admit that I ain't the most knowledgeable person on the subject of the waterfront expansion, but I do know that I am happy that there will be a cooperative technology center there for WWU and BTC to share. This new space will give the ETEC department and the VRI much needed additional work area for projects like the hybrid bus.

In any case, that is not the point. This thread is not about the economic situation we are currently in, whose land this is, was, or will be, or the merits of the different departments. If I remember correctly, this was about the willingness of the students and staff to settle for good enough, which while advantageous in some situations (not necessarily academia), the OP believes this to be a problem. Anyways, that's my piece; carry on.

Hi all,

Again, I do not wish to accuse the students of mediocrity.  I don't hold young people responsible for how WWU turned out.

With hundred of tons of mercury in Bellingham Bay - so very toxic - crazy for WWU to build down there. What department would wish to be there? 

Mediocrity. Or ignorance? Or what? 

But Tip informs me that WWU no longer has any money to buy the Bay land anyway. Olympia turned us down.

It all comes down to standards. I had a teacher in middle school and his philosophy was that students tend to do what's demanded of them. In other words, if the demands on the student are felt by the student then the student will feel motivated to succeed. In my highschool I always noticed that the hardest teachers had the most students pulling A's and B's whereas the laid back "easy" teachers often had a lot more of a bell curve. I propose that the bell curve in grading you see at western is due to these factors:

Tests are written by faculty with the intention of being difficult enough that a bell curve will always form because that's the way test difficulty is evaluated. If many students get A's, then regardless of how difficult the test may have actually been, faculty members will be put under pressure by the administration because it appears as though they were handing out free A's. So next time that prof might make the test even harder to ensure that the bell curve results or FORCE A CURVE on their students. The appearance of Grade Inflation is a problem for many universities because it discredits their institution.  This is ultimately why I think the bell curve appears on it's own possibly apart from student effort...it's engineered that way.

But then on the other hand:

Let's think through this scenario. Imagine Western being a place where everyone worked significantly harder on their grades. Suddenly there would be a burst of A's and B's and maybe for those with learning troubles some C's and D's. This would send up a major red flag around campus and faculty would be called upon to up their standards to avoid grade inflation. So then over time tests etc would keep getting harder and harder until the bell curve was once again restored. This indicates that The bell curve (or the concept of mediocrity in general) forms as a response to a cultural pattern. When a standard is set, some will meet, some exceed and some fail...it's more or less inevitable except in a few somewhat extreme scenarios. So maybe there are a lot of lazy Western students, but regardless the presence of relative mediocrity is more or less inevitable because it's the nature of standards.

Kamalla Rose Kaur: investigative journalist and scientist, bringing unknown but dangerous facts into the public eye!

I feel I should point out that the Geology/Environmental Studies professors were consulted regarding the waterfront and, to my knowledge, unanimously agreed that such action (building buildings there) would be a bad idea.  Not, however, because of the mercury, but because that waterfront is artifically built, meaning an earthquake would lead to liquefaction, which would sink the building (probably killing everyone inside it).  But yeah, watch out for the mercury.

Barring that, this seems to have veered quite aways away from "mediocrity" to "soapboxing."

On-topic: It's been rather firmly established that I'm not here to learn actual content; I'm here to learn how to learn.  I'm in a technology-related field and 90% of what I learn here I will never use, partly because of specializaton, partly because of Moore's Law (obsolecence).  In order to succeed in the job market, I need to acquire applicable skills (materialized through certifications and the like) that cannot be obtained here (through no fault of the university).  I'm pretty much done with the core curriculum so I've gotten that foundation I need to actually learn; I'm done here.  I'm just going through the motions so I can get that stamped piece of paper and be on my way.  I go to class, take some notes, study a little, take the tests.  As there is very little career-relevant knowledge this university has left to offer me, why should I do more?

It seems to me Finn, you just want others here at Western to conform to your way of being a student-- if everyone was like you, you'd be happy. My question, who cares? I still fail to see why this is a big deal. It hasn't affected you obviously, with all of your accomplishments so why? One would think you could have worked even harder if you paid less attention to others around you and focused more on yourself.

And you make "just getting a degree" a bad thing. I can not afford school with out loans and working. I do not have the money(unless I want to spend my whole life paying back loans) to go to school just for learning and getting an education. A lot of people have to get in, get a degree, and get out. Thats society's fault, not theres. I wish I could take classes that truly interest me but I can't afford it. I have to do take what I have to take and get that degree. You are too hard on your fellow students and generalize way too much. Talk to all of those "mediocure" students and find out the real cause. Its a bit self centered to project your values(and assume they are the correct ones) on to everybody who attends WWU. I chose Western partly for its environment, it seems very open-minded and welcoming to all types. This thought of yours is extremely narrow--you suppose that there is only one way to be a good student. You also make it sound as if everyone has to be a good student. Think about it. Be grateful for the kid who doesn't come to class-- if everyone was as "good" as you, you wouldn't look so good. You'd be normal.

And who died and made you judge? You judge every student based on your preceptions of what a "good" student is. I'm offended, and I have a high GPA, attend class regularly, come to class prepared and blah blah (your ideal of a good student). Its rude. Not that I mean to attack you, although it came out that way. I just wonder at why this bothers you. Does it really affect you?

gotta get that degree, baby!

Call me too trusting, but i'm sure everyone is aware of the mercury and have deemed it a non-threat.  But then again, I tend to trust scientists over journalists...

You got off to a good start. 

The point of saying this is not to suggest there exists a causal connection between grade inflation and school ranking. However, the best ranked schools in the country are notoriously inflated.  I attended a super-prestigous top flight school in Boston that everyone has heard of.  While there I once wrote a crap paper with simple patterns of errors.  Professor sits me down on conference day "So, know that I could have torn you apart for this, but I gave you a B+. Leave."  I do not pretend that my anecdote means every class at every top ranked school has grade inflation.  However, I have been there, can confirm that even systematic grade inflation won't dent the reputation of an institution, and feel that grading concerns are no answer for professors having zero to minimal control over their classes and designing unchallenging courses executed at "mediocre" standards.

Your second paragraph is too speculative.  I contend that, first, WWU is far too overextended to patrol individual professors.  Second, a real, competent professor will not be scared of administration.  Third, WWU does not have real bell curve grading.  How many people do you know who have put even a modest effort into studying and failed out of school, or even a good number of their individual classes?

Your third paragraph basically describes the academic paradigm shift the University should strive for.  At the end of the day, I wish for more reasons to be prideful of my WWU degree, and know that I could have learned much more in a more academic/focused classroom setting, and been better prepared for grad school.

I can't find the WA Dept Of Ecology article that i read last year, but as of then, the dredging of the mercury-contaminated sediments was set to begin in 2012 if i remember correctly.  Maybe it was 2014.  Anyway, as far as i know, building next to the bay would result in no danger to anyone there with respect to the mercury, because as mercury is the heaviest element in a liquid phase at ambient temperatures, it sinks down to the bottom of the bay and sits in with the sediments.   

As someone brought up, the biggest issue with building on the waterfront is due to the fact that that area was built by filing in the bay with garbage and laying asphalt on top of it, which is not a stable medium when talking about earthquakes.

I think there are a lot of students here that work really hard, and at some point or another, if we don't learn what we need to learn, if we don't work hard, then we fail at some level. In my major at least (music education), people are essentially forced to go above and beyond the call of duty. We have to learn the basics of every instrument we might teach. We have to build a resume to get into a very competitive College of Education (not to mention a fairly competitive music department). There are lots of people (some that are absolutely amazing musicians) that start out as music majors and then decide to settle for a minor because it's just too difficult. In the end, the people that graduate are far from mediocre. In my GUR classes, however, yes, I do see lots of mediocrity; but maybe that's because it's a GUR? But I also think I see it in some of my math classes? Maybe because it's seen as a pre-req? Or maybe because in the rest of the school there truly is a lot of mediocrity? I don't know. I need to sleep.

And just as a side-note...

Yes; KUGS is still run completely by students, with the exception of one non-student staff-member that serves as a general manager and a resource regarding FCC laws and such. But overall she's there more as an advisor to make sure we're staying on our feet, and leaves the student directors to do the meat of the work. Oh, and there's one faculty member who does a music show once a week. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it wasn't run completely by students.

www.kugs.org

Thank you friends for beginning to provide some real responses to a few of my queries.  I forgive your insults of English  and Journalism majors, and our professors and departments. That said,  I believe we need all kinds of talent to make good teams. Two snoopy journalists brought down Enron - in 24 days. www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/1226.html

Beat that!

Mercy, mercy, not a scientist, not a bit. O well.

But many of my best friends are scientists and I hope to meet many more honest scientists before I die. Great great people. They work hard to disprove their own theories! Gotta love that.  

My first husband, a physicist - his start-up in Silicon Valley went public in the 80s. The war between the suits  and the scientists raged fiercely there. Lots of great stories, and I do so respect the many Silicon Valley scientists who gave we-the-people  the internet. 

Now Silicon Valley is a ghost town and I actually pray that no young person will be forced to live her or his life in a cubicle, working 60 hour weeks. No matter how exciting and no matter how much new knowledge comes about.

Don't watch your brilliance and long hours(your life)  be used - first and foremost - for war and profit of snobs you will never meet.

I trust people I find to be trustable. Obviously, many in Bellingham dunna trust "scientists" paid for by the corrupt Port Commissioners. Western, traditionally, provides REAL science done by people not paid to prefer one number over another.  The Fresh Water Institute had professors and students roaming all over Lake Whatcom, collecting honest data.

Of course, we all know that those wonderful WWU scientists lost that war.

Our drinking water comes from Lake Whatcom! Folks buying McMansions along North Shore Drive use Round-Up and nobody swims at the swimming park, Blodel Donovan anymore. Turd alert! (Blodel Donovan park was formerly the lumber mill and it is named after two dead white guys wishing to go down in history, which they have, of course.) .

I dunna know and I dunna care about all the details of how we came to this place. Silicon Valley got off shored. Enron had a room called "The California War Room" - and they won that war.! They took down California.

But times they are a'changing! Great time to overwhelm the "suits" with creativity and celebrate our new freedom. I got friends with boats. Professors have lots of boats. Kayaks too. Let's do some top rate science on Bellingham Bay.

Tip  Johnson ( Fairhaven College's bright star? Or WWU's worst enemy?) says GP is the reason we got  mercury up river on the Nooksack. It ain't natural around here. Can we prove him wrong? Did they use mercury to spray logging roads?

Independent research - usually provided by WWU scientists and science students - is needful. Come on out!

In tijmes of depression, nobody feels sorry for intellectuals and institutions of learning because if you can't be innovative with 15 thousand troops of fit and vigorous young adults, then O well.  Having a Liberal Arts Education means you are smart - in all sorts of ways and can see the needs and fill them - and create and dissolve teams for projects, as needed.

Most feel WWU will receive MORE cuts in money. Very challenging. A great opportunity to be innovative for sure.

Luckily so many WWU graduates, trained up by WWU's amazing scientists and environmentalists live right here in Whatcom County. Local performance poet Kevin Murphy from the Bellingham Food Coop - invite him back and ask him how WWU can fit into the rest of Bellingham's best Green Tech.

Glad to hear that KUGS is student run again. Good news. To increase local listening they should dig out Rita Sodt's show (and honor her  memory and that of her husband, Camous Minister, Bill Sodt). Replay Rita's radio show!  Also The No Doze Bros (we have the mastertape for that if KUGS lost it). KUGS Public Service announcements, made in the 1980s are classics! When was the last time KUGS played: "Recycle or Die!"

Speaking of which! "The Lynden Recycle Project" is fully archived at the Center for PNW Studies (located in the archives building across from Bucky Towers). Way back when, Fairhaven College students studied Lynden's history and culture, and then they talked with many many people in Lynden. Thus they established road-side recycling. I am pretty sure this happened before Bellingham pulled off anything similar. Others here remember because they were here. Again, I lived in Silicon Valley back then and only visited Western when visiting my family. Being an organic gardener you all know where I headed  - the Outback Farm, like everyone else!  

 You know Kamalla, for a journalist and creative writing major, you write some of the most incoherent stuff I have ever read.

First of all, it's really none of anyone's business how other's conduct themselves. At all.

If Western's atmosphere bother's you, DON'T ATTEND SCHOOL HERE. It's really, really simple. 

Those who feel Western is "overrun by slackers" should really try attending a major university somewhere else in the nation, because let me tell you, compared to some of the midwestern or eastern schools, we are SO lucky. We have no frat community here, we don't even have a football team anymore. Why do you care if some people chose to take school more or less seriously than others? I was under the impression the NW was of a more libertarian viewpoint on personal responsibility and choice.

Kamalla, while I appreciate and respect your thoughts, Western cannot stay the same forever. Nothing stays the same, and everything is changing and rearranging itself, all the time (to quote the palm pre commerical ahah). I personally work for one of the Western offices, and I am a dedicated student. It really gets me down to hear you constantly put a negative spin on the University, when in reality, most of the adminstration and faculty (many of whom I know personally) sincerly care for the students and the quality of education Western offers. While I completely agree that there are scores of issues that need to be addressed, like Western's relationships with corporations, etc, I'd really love to hear some alternatives to appropriating the money that they give the university, money which GOES TO STUDENTS in the form of scholarships. We could sever our ties with evil corporations, and I agree, sodexho is pretty evil, but they also create jobs on campus, as well as donating money to the school. Many students could not attend at all if this was not so.

Finn, thats great that your cabin is still here. But, if it was a homestead, doesn't that mean that it didn't belong to your family before the west was settled? We are all immigrants. Some of us have been here for longer. But the whole "perfect NW citizen" ideal is exclusionary. We should all work together, and try to focus somewhat on the positive while at the same time addressing the negative issues which encompass our world and specifically the NW.

And lighten up. Please.

^^ Epic Posts of Derailment +5... ^^

and I contributed to that. Blegh. Let me attempt to bring it back on topic.

The core reason why students are mediocre (which is not to say they get bad/average grades, but that they perform the minimum amount of work necessary to get by) is because of a lack of incentive.

Most undergraduate students are not going to graduate school. Their undergrad GPA, therefore, serves very little function other than academic e-peen (a few people find that reason enough; good for them). Employers are usually not going to look at your transcript and hire somene only if he got straight A's on the relevant courses. The disincentive of having a mediocre GPA is minute compared to all that utility they derive from partying through the weekend and sleeping in on Monday.

And that's only for "trade school" majors. For liberal arts? Having a degree at all is what counts then...

Remember senioritis back in high school? (Or college. Hell, I'm feeling it right now...) Well, this is them, for all 4/5/6 years.

So instead of questioning why students are mediocre, a more pertinent question is: why shouldn't they be?

I join you in disagreeing with yourself. 

Your notion is that at 17 years of age, one will have the foresight to completely envision how they will fit within a community after four years of "personal growth," as well as completely evaluate the quality of college courses.  By the time one does have the facilites to really evaluate a school, uprooting and going to a more suitable school is impossible.  Furthermore, UW, the only viable upgrade, only accepts in-state transfers in exceedingly rare circumstances.

So, actually, not attending school at WWU once enrolled is hardly "really, really simple."  I think you probably knew that.

The reality is some of us got a lot less than we bargained for at WWU. When we have a graduation keynote speaker making light of WWU's poor reputation and unlikely high-end job propsects, which happened this spring, there exist some institutional issues to address.

I think it's important to realize that not everyone has the same priorities. For some people, academic excellence is most important to them, but for other students it may not be. I see the point of the public university  as an institution to  allow everyone to have a chance at a college degree. Sure some students may not try as hard as others. But I wouldn't want to see WWU and other public schools become too selective. In my mind, the rigors of the university will weed out those who really don't belong here. I know there's grade inflation and yes, it's probaby much easier to get a 4.0 now than it used to be. But that doesn't mean that graduating from college is suddenly truly easy.

I have to say, I find a lot of this thread to be really arrogant. Everyone has a different situation in life, and of course sometimes mediocre students who disrupt class are annoying, but like I said, public universities are meant to cater to the general population, not just the academic elite. And college is so much of a growing experience. As a freshman I was abset quite a bit, but now as a junior I'm an excellent student, study harder than ever, and haven't missed one class in a year. I believe we have to allow immature students to grow and mature, and that's part of the role of the public university as well. Also, you have to take into consideration things that may be happening in these "medicore" student's personal lives. My first year in college I got really sick, and spent most of spring quarter in doctor's offices. I missed a lot of class and was late a few times, and most of it was beyond my control. Not everyone can put the same amount of emphasis on education. That doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance at earning a degree.

My family homesteaded in the San Juan's.  That property has been donated to the nature conservancy.  The land that forms the Fairhaven campus was purchased by my great-grandparents in the early 1900's and was later donated to WWU.  Ultimately, that's really superfluous. In fact, the entire portion of this disussion that includes my family is superfluous. 

I didn't actually think I'm being that intense.  Academic excellence is something every student should strive for.  It's difficult for me to even reconcile an attitude of indiffernece towards studying.

Finn

"You know Kamalla, for a journalist and creative writing major, you write some of the most incoherent stuff I have ever read."

Senility leads to mediocrity, no doubt.  Still I hope to improve lots in graduate school - stay tuned.

But really now, my babble, some of the most incoherent stuff you've EVER read? Have you tried literary criticism articles? Or snail brain research?

.