Bus drivers confiscating bus passes?

I agree that that was really not fair! I can totally understand if she just didn't let you on the bus - that makes sense! But to drive you where you wanted to go and then not give you your card back, that's ridiculous!

In the future, if you're with someone who doesn't have their pass, have them get on the bus first and explain to the bus driver. If the driver doesn't let them on, then at least the rest of you haven't gotten on already. But some drivers will let you on, especially if you have you Western card on you to prove you are a WWU student.

As for getting your card back, you could go into WTA's office or Western's transportation office and let them know what happened, explain it just as you did in your post. They may give you a new one. If not, you can get a new one from (I think...?) the Western Card Office by telling them you lost it, but I believe they will charge you a little bit for it.

Last year they didn't charge for a new bus pass at the card office, but that may have changed. It seems WTA is getting more strict with regards to its regulations. It does seem like the bus driver handled your rule-breaking rather poorly, though.

 That happened to me. I'm going to try to get another so I hope that works out. 

I don't particularly think that confiscating the bus pass was too harsh.  I'm sure they have rules with things like that and she just followed what she was supposed to.  Frankly, I always feel bad for the bus drivers... They have to put up with so much crap and disrespect, especially from drunk college students.  While I think that the punishment was definitely more than most bus drivers would have done, I don't think she acted out of line.

 You wont be charged if you go into the Western Card Office in Edens and ask for a new bus pass. I lost mine earlier this year and it takes all of 3 minutes to get a new one.

The back of the card does say "This pass is non-transferable" ....

I think it was wrong for the busdriver to steal you personal property. No matter what, the bus pass was your personal property.

You paid for it. Taking another person's personal property is called: STEALING  in this society! That busdriver was a bully! I think more and more busdrivers think they are Gods!

They think they can terrorize college students any  way  they want. I think they are just full of hatred toward college students who are going to go out into the world as well educated, intelligent people, and the leaders of tomorrow!

Just go into Edens Hall and tell them, somebody stole your bus pass (that is the truth) and get another bus pass. Next time don't share your bus pass with anybody. It's only yours.

Sometimes bus passes stop working.  Mine did and I was able to get a free one at Edens

I disagree.  I think her taking the bus pass was totally justified, and the card is most likely considered their property and can take it upon request.  I wouldn't be suprised if they disabled your number as well.  You were basically trying to get your friend a free ride by stealing.  Next time ask the bus driver nicely if your friend could ride just this once.  She probably would have let him.  Stealing is stealing regardless of the cost.  Would your friend steal a $1 candy bar from the grocery store as well?  The punishment is more severe in that circumstance.

Are we supposed to feel bad you almost didn't make it home cause you were drunk and it was dark and rainy? You chose to get drunk and you chose to give your buddy your bus pass. You can take the consequences.  I'm sure someone at the party could have loaned u a dollar to get home on the bus.  Why do people always try to play the victim? Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for their actions.

But if you take this literalist view of what the OP did, then you must also take a literalist view in examining what the bus driver would be doing if she let someone ride for free: She would also be stealing from the company, and should be fired.

If she responded to such a financially trivial 'theft' with such ham-fisted punishment, I don't see it in her nature to allow literal freeriders.

This situation is more complex than simple crime and punishment, for two reasons.

Firstly, there is no victim. The bus runs regardless of whether the OP's friend got on, and as long as the bus was not full to the point that others cannot get on (and it didn't seem to be that way), there is absolutely no direct financial loss incurred by the bus company.

Secondly, as a student of WWU, the OP's friend has already purchased the right to ride on WTA buses. I don't consider it a case of buying a physical piece of plastic known as a bus pass, but rather, paying money to secure the ridership of said buses whenever they are available. The friend's only "crime" is not being able to produce a token piece of plastic, and not theft.

Also, by taking the OP's card, the bus driver has deprived the OP of something that is HER private property, to which the driver was not entitled.

As such, "protecting the company's bottom line" is not a valid defense of why the driver did what she did. The alternatives that I see are:

1. an overly-zealous application of "rules". Bureaucracy at its finest.
2. a power trip. She caught the OP, then decided to kick the proverbial dog.

Either way, I believe this is a gross abuse of power. I would lodge a complaint with WTA, but it wouldn't solve much. *cough*monopoly*cough*

EDIT: Go to Edens and get a new pass. I seriously doubt they're coded for any sort of identification...

She took the card away from you when you got on the bus.  Did you honestly expect her to give it back to you exited?  Don't you think if she took it, she was going to keep it?  What would be the point of taking it from you only while you were already on the bus?  It's your own fault for going all the way to your desination without realizing that you probably wouldn't get it back.  When it comes down to it, she probably should have just refused service to you for that single ride, but you should have been up front about your friend not having any cash.  You took the risk, broke the rules, and now have to live with the consequences.  Take some responsibility for your actions.  I'm sure you can just get another pass at Eden's anyways.

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but how can you possibly say the bus drive was depriving the OP of her private property?  It seems fairly straightforward to me... You are given a bus pass.  You follow the rules.  If you don't follow rules, you lose the privelage of having the bus pass.  How is that an abuse of power?

This thread, lol.  

She had the right to refuse you in the first place, but hanging on to your pass after I think was pretty sneaky. In Seattle I have riden the bus without paying couple times, just be nice. They cannot force you to pay, but if you are rude they can call the cops. You guys are old enough to know that lying and cheating are wrong. Just ask politely. I agree though how she did it was a little cold. Not safe to drop you off without a way home. At least you guys didn't drive to the party. More could have happened than just loosing a pass.

QFT

Someone show me on WTA's site the rules with regards to this. I'ma have to agree with Mib on this; the bus driver can refuse service, but to take the card that we paid for by being students, is ridiculous. She wouldn't have complained if you turned around and gave him a dollar and using your buspass is little different; you have an X number of rides and you decided to give up one of them to your friend. If it was me, I'd've stayed on the bus until she gave me back my card, but I'm stubborn like that.

It's an abuse of power for several reasons, some of which I have already mentioned in my previous post:

1. Qualification of the OP's action as 'theft' is extremely tenuous at best.
2. Bus drivers are not empowered to initiate vigilante justice. If she believed the action of the OP was theft, then she should have called the cops. If my neighbor steals my stuff, I don't break in to their place and steal my stuff back.
3. You are not given a bus pass, and it's not a privilege to ride the bus. On the contrary, the OP paid for the bus pass, and therefore she has paid for the right to ride on any available WTA bus. Which is now denied her by the bus driver.

I see it differently. You buy access to ride on any available WTA bus between specified dates, and you are given a bus pass to conveniently show that you have access. You've paid for access regardless of whether you have ther card on you at the moment. The causal relationship is clear:

You have access to ride the bus -> you are given a bus pass to show for it

NOT

You have a bus pass -> you can ride the bus

Why? Because you can just mosey down to Edens and tell them, "I lost my card", and they'll give you a new one, free of charge. So it is obviously NOT the card itself that you pay money to buy, but ridership of the buses.

The EULA for the buss pass is not stated on ridewta.com (that I can find), therefore jurisdiction regarding the use of the pass is delegated to the admins. If they deem it's within their powers to confiscate cards, too bad.

It may be true that you've paid for access regardless of whether you have your card on you at the moment or not, but it would be impossible for the bus driver to verify that without you having your card. While I agree that the bus driver should not have confiscated the card in the first place, I think it would have been entirely fair for her to have not allowed the two people in question to ride, here is why: 

Normally people pay for bus cards. As I understand it, the only reason that you can simply grab a replacement at Edens is that the university has a special agreement with the WTA where every student pays a transportation fee that allows them access to a free bus card. Therefore, it's not a simple matter of "paying" to have a right to ride the bus. You pay for a bus card, which enables you to ride the bus. It also isn't a matter of paying for a certain number of x rides that can be distributed how you please among any number of people. On the back of the card it says "non transferrable" for a reason. If someone could simply pass their card back to their friends, there would be absolutely no reason for their friend to ever buy a bus card in the first place. The OP's intentions were good as I see it, but that doesn't lessen the fact that he broke the rules. Now, I think that the bus driver may have broken policy by confiscating his card. However, I am essentially ignorant on this point, because I don't know what WTA's policy is in the matter. If the policy includes confiscating the card, then so be it. Until someone manages to find out about the policy in question, I think random speculation is kind of pointless.

It's a shame when people get away with breaking the rules, then they run into someone who takes their job seriously, and they actually feel blindsided and victimized by someone upholding the rules. Moderately hilarious. Like this thread!

Anyway, everyone knows there is only one rule when breaking the rules: don't get caught. You failed. You only have a negative opinion of this bus driver because someone actually called you out, and said, "No." There's a lot of people that can't seem to handle that, apparently.
 

Now don't get me wrong I think the students did break the rules, and should be punished. But the bus driver in this case went a bit too far, if you're going to keep the card AFTER giving them a ride across town, thats just downright vindictive. Of course the bus driver may have thought you were going home >.> It's still not right, by doing that the bus driver may have caused much worse things to happen to the students. Not saying that the students aren't to blame, just that the bus driver went to far.

QFT

Break the rules -> get caught -> consequences.  Boohoo.  Don't hate because you were not successful in deliberately breaking the rules.

 You do realize that you can just give your pass to your friend and use your student I.D. to get on the bus, right? Or that he could use his I.D. to get on? 

The highlighted text is important.  You 'slipped' it to him behind your back, so you knew it was a big enough deal that you had to hide it.

If you've seen them let people on, then why didn't you simply ask?  Most of the drivers are willing to help out, even grudgingly, especially in that situation.  I also have to ask, if it wasn't a big deal, why not scrounge up the $1 in the first place?  I'd be totally on your side (and would suggest complaining) if you had simply asked and been refused in your situation, as it is though, you opted to try to trick the employee and got caught.

I might suggest that she was cranky because she caught you trying to sneak by her, rather than just doing the polilte thing and asking.  I know I would be less inclined to be friendly if someone just tried to trick me.  She let you ride the bus, so she doesn't seem particularly vindictive.

I can't help but agree with her course of action in dealing with someone who deliberately and covertly attempted to get a free ride.

You understand you broke the rules, you just want the punishment to be less severe.  What would you suggest?  Should they simply leave it with a stern look?  Perhaps calling your parents and expressing her disappointment in you?

I never have, and here's why -- it is a non-transferrable pass.  I don't lend it to my kids on the weekend even though they'd never know. I know that the WTA doesn't run at a profit, so every dollar counts.  Getting a free ride should be something granted at their discretion, not something taken simply to save yourself a buck.

This cannot be the way you think it should work.  This is one of those very rare circumstances where I disagree with you Mib (the first I think).  The WTA driver is an employee of the organization and as such she has, at the very least, some power to determine who does and doesn't ride his/her bus.  It would be very easy to determine which driver did so, and if they were outside of their authority, so it is clear she didn't overstep.

In the same way that an employee/manager of a service company or retail outlet may be able to deny service and/or ban people,  the bus driver must have some recourse for the same kind of thing.

In a way, the forum is a lot like that.  The bus drivers (mods) must be granted some authority to be able to do their job.  It might include warnings, post locking, or content modification, or it might go up to banning.  It all depends upon the authority they've been given.  In the case of the WTA drivers, they have the authority to confiscate bus passes which are essentially considered WTA property (I called), though it isn't overtly stated.

The incident may seem financially trivial but is wrong nevertheless.  If they are willing to do it once and get away with it, what would stop them from doing it 10 times, or 100?  It is evident that the OP knew what they were doing, and they attempted to hide their action.  They knew it was wrong and still went through with it.

You say there is no victim, as if the WTA works for free.  They rely on every dollar they collect to maintain the system.  Denying dollars here and there may not seem like a lot until you start adding them up.  It is the accumulative nature of this kind of theft that is so destructive, particularly for an organization that has doesn't have the padding of a profit margin.  There is a victim, in that we all share responsibility or we all potentially lose the option.

The driver has no way to verify this person has a pass without personal recognition or that 'token' piece of plastic.I drive my car, I have a license, but if I drive without that license I can be ticketed.  If I purchase a hunting/fishing license, I must have it on my person.  None of which, by the way, are immune from revocation should I use them impoperly, despite 'paying' in advance for their use.

If you forget your license, then you run the risk of paying the penalty if you are caught without it.  In this case, the penalty is trivial, in that all they had to do was pay $1 to ride (and a second ride for free w/transfer).  But instead of appealing to the bus driver, they simply took the step to attempt to sneak one by them.  It is not the forgetting of the bus pass that was the problem, rather their actions as a result.

You pay for a driver's license, yet it can be revoked as well.  You pay for the privilege of riding the bus, but that privilege is not your property.  It is granted and removed at the will of WTA (and possibly the university).  The only way they have of revoking that privilege is by confiscating the card.  Deactivating would be effectively impossible on the bus itself.

What 'bottom line'?  They are not a for profit organization (is there really profit to be had in this business?), so why isn't protection of their income a valid defense? --  http://blogs.bellinghamherald.com/traffic/?cat=11  -- of particular interest is their 2010 outlook is their operating losses in the first half of this year.

I pay for a bus pass and the right to use the bus when I have it. If I don't have it, I pay. Those are the rules, and I'd prefer to live by them than not have a system at all (a distinct possibility). This kind of thing makes it more difficult for them to continue operation.

This is wrong.  It is non-transferable.  Says so right on the card.  If you give him a dollar and he pays, they gain a $.  If you hand the card to him, and 100 of your friends that don't have bus passes it is different.

The assumption that it's somehow a 'right' to ride on the bus, even if you've already paid, is a mistake. I can pay for a bus ride and STILL get kicked off if I break the rules.  It happens all the time.  They own the buses, they write the schedule, they plan the routes, they make the rules, and they even issue that (reduced fare) card as a service to students, staff and faculty.

 If a company charges for a service, and you don't pay them for the service they rendered, is that theft?  It seems like it would be.

Here is a parallel in the New York Subway transit rules: http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm#payment

They have their own extension of police, and all their rules and regs are enforcable under penalty of law. Fortunately we aren't that big, so it doesn't have to go that far.  But non-payment IS theft.

I think this is a little overly dramatic.  There is no vigilante justice here.  Likely, she is well within her authority to confiscate a bus pass if she believes it is stolen, or otherwise being used improperly for free bus rides.

It would be very troublesome for the WTA to call the police everytime someone tries to steal a bus ride.  In the same sense that a shopowner is unlikley to call the cops when someone steals a $0.60 candy bar as it's too much time and effort.
 

I'm not sure how this analogy applies...

You pay a subsidized rate for the right to have it, and it is a privilege to ride the bus.  I think the disconnect is that payment does not automatically imply ownership.  The Bus pass is simply the most convenient way to endow the ability to ride the bus upon the thousands of people who pay for that ability (without the need to bring $$).  I'm not sure why people are interpreting it to grants an unchecked 'right' to ride no matter what.

It is this exact statement that refutes the card as personal property.  It is a convenient identifier.

Let's ask it like this...under what conditions could or should a rider have his/her ability to ride the bus revoked?  Do you think that any and all behavior is acceptable, while still maintaining the right to ride, because you paid for that right?

If you agree that there are circumstances under which you can have your 'right' revoked, then the natural followup to that is who determines those circumstances?  Is it the person who pays for the 'right' or is it the WTA who grants the right in the first place?

I actually called them on this issue and the Customer Service person stated that they DO grant their drivers the authority to confiscate cards in situations exactly like this.  It's not stated on their site anywhere, as it's been that way for as long as they've had the card system without the need to state it (the authority is implied I guess).

I followed up and left a suggestion (on their suggestion 'Hotline') that they might want to post that information.

What would you suggest as a meaningful and effective punishment that is within the scope of the drivers authority and capability?

does the bus pass have a limited number of rides it will let you ride before it stops working? or is it unlimited rides but only durring the dates specified on the card?

either way...taking your pass away seems harsh. perhaps though that's the companys policy and no one has yet to really enforce it till she came along.

regardless,...you made it back, your safe, and you can get a new card and move on. let this be a lesson learned. and tell your friend to get a new card too and not loose it!

Haha, you rock. This is the best reply ever.

(Just the part in response to me, cause the rest is way to long)

Not let them ride in the first place and take the card! I agree with everything but the fact she gave them a ride and then took the card. Thats like stranding them in the middle of nowhere without warning or way to get back if the bus had been their plan.

 You and your buddy stole. Things could of been worse, you could of got your asses canned. I was arrested for stealing a goddamn bundle of firewood from fredmyers and technically I never stole anything, I was just in the car. If they only took my fredmyers savings card I would be very happy knowing I could sign up for another one. I was charged 500 bucks assmunch. Stop your snooty ass complaining and get another bus pass foe free.    

I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the card scanner will reject any card number that was recently accepted for just this reason.  (Obviously each card is a unique identifier, since they are deactivated if you drop below 6 credits.) I don't know if it's the case for WWU cards, but over the summer I was on a bus and a group of high school kids were trying to pass a bus pass around and it didn't work, and the driver was able to identify immediately that they were all trying to use one card.  So even if you had been able to pass the card behind your back, it's likely it wouldn't have worked.

Yeah something like that happened to us on Halloween, the bus was only taking WWU students and I had my boyfriend with me who isnt a student. He had money so I figured it was okay but the guy totally freaked out!!! He was like no! only WWU students! and he was like unless ur a guest you cant come on the bus.

Obviously we were together cuz we were holding hands, but the driver started yelling and telling him to get off of the bus. And I said no, he's with me. And the driver said we'll make it clear! and I just yelled at him and said " well shit sorry I didnt know!"

I know that you can pick up a new card on the first floor of Edens Hall, its on the side of the building. I would just tell them that the bus driver took it and what bus # it was and when. They might be able to get it back.

Chad just tore a hole in the universe.