...Continued discussion about the NWO

If this whole thing confuses you at first, that's OK. It is part of the agenda of the glabalists that you don't know what's really going in today's world. Think about it. I'm sure that most days when you're not concentrating on school that you watch television or play video games. Now I know that these are great fun, but we have allowed a corporate takeover of the messages that these mediums present to us. It should be known that all forms of entertainment and media are controlled by a select few companies and with a good sense of psychology and sociology they know exactly what to show you and tell you to make you think and feel how they want you to. If you do begin to wake up and realize that your rights as an American are being widdled down every day and you want to stand up against this monolith of power and corruption that WILL eventually take everything away from you, it is simple...
Start by waking up. Turn off the TV and video games long enough and research any of the above topics. Look at all sides of the story and hard evidence. Be skeptical and shatter the left-right political paradigm. Then, get angry! This is supposed to be your world, your life, and you were supposed to be born into a country of freedom and prosperity and inherit the Earth and these mad men are doing everything to take that away from you and keep it to themselves and throw us back into feudalism. Then get active. DO something about it. Follow our lead, inform others, but most of all don't ever give up your right to speak your mind to the highest athority without a fight. Protect your basic rights as a human, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4DzFSTuXkw

If you want a simple and easy to understand way of getting informed and waking up, I suggest you go on YouTube and watch any of the free and legally copied documentary films by Alex Jones who is probably the most public informant about the NWO.

Fall of The Republic
The Obama Deception
Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement

I also recomend going to his websites for news that you won't get on mainstream media and listening to his radio show.

infowars.com

prisonplanet.tv

prisonplanet.com

 Did you guys see South Park on Wednesday? It was pretty great.

I see nothing inherently wrong with thus. The price of fossil fuels (crude oil for gasoline, coal for electricity) in dollars have never represented their true cost in this country, in regard to environmental degredation. I'm not talking about global warming here. Offshore drilling -->oil spills in the ocean. Onshore drilling --> disturbing of fragile ecosystems and their fauna (sometimes). Coal mining --> complete ecosystem destruction. Burning of these fuels -->increased atmospheric N20/ sulfur dioxide (local pollutants), mercury deposition in otherwise relatively pristine places.

In Norway the recent gasoline prices were about $8.50/gallon. Econ 101 says that you don't have to change the people think about anything; you only have to give them incentives to change. If gas prices are that high, people can't afford to drive H2's that get 8 MPG. They find more efficient ways of getting around because they can't afford not to.. Not only is it about personal choices, but it gives people of that country incentives to invest in functional, practical mass transit systems such as trains.

Just because plants use it for photosynthesis does not mean that drastically increasing atmospheric concentrations of it will be harmless. The world was somewhat in equlibrium in regard to atmospheric CO2 concentrations until the industrial revolution, and increasing the concentration this much in such a short period of time has its effects.

A recent experiment showed that plants exposed to high levels of CO2 are initially much more productive for about 3 years, but after that they become much less productive than the were initially due to the fact that they deplete the soils of essential elements that are needed in very small quantites, but are nesessary nontheless:

Hungate et al 2004, "CO2 Elecits Long-Term Decline in Nitrogen Fixation" from Science Vol 304
 

Have you all heard about this? Increasing atmospheric CO2 concentrations result in the oceans becoming more acidic. This is an effect of CO2 that has nothing to do with global warming.

As gaseous CO2 dissolves into ocean water, carbonic acid is formed which turns into bicarbonate or carbonate, and hydrogen ions:

CO2 + H20 <--> H2CO3 <--> HCO3^- + H^+ <--> CO3 ^2- + 2H^+

(sorry the equation looks funky. I tried to make it look nice in Word and paste it here, but apparently that doesn't work)

As more CO2 is added, it pushes the equation to the right, which creates more hydrogen ions (H+). Hydrogen ions are what determine acidity. As more hyrogen ions are produced, the water becomes more acidic.

Why is this important, you might ask? The more hydrogen ions that are produced, the less carbonate is available to calcifiers, which are organisms that extract carbonate from the water in order to build calcium carbonate shells or skeletons (corals, shellfish, calcareous plankton, etc). As oceans become more acidic, it gets harder it gets for these calcifiers to extract carbonate from the water, and they die. Calcifiers are a major part of the food chain throughout the world. Coral reefs are the first to go as ocean pH drops, and they provide a multitude of ecosystem services. What will the consequences of such a huge disruption in the food chain be? That's still up for speculation, but it doesn't seem like anything good will result because of it.

Since you (anonymouse, downwiththenwo) don't believe in global warming, here is another reason for why we need to decrease global CO2 emissions. This is not based on computer models that may not be accurate, like global warming. This is simple chemistry, and very easily observable.
 

True, but global governance and a global tax doesn't solve this, it simply creates desparity between the rich and poor classes of the world wich will eventually destroy industry all together and we will be thrown into a post-industrial neo-feudal age that we might never get out of. The answer is simply more efficient and green-friendly products that reduce carbon emissions and help the environment. I love mother Earth as much as anyone else and I don't want to see it choked out, but that's not what's being argued here. The wealthy elite are using climate change to implement a global control grid and simply sucking more wealth from the people instead of doing the obvious solution of changing energy sources to solar and wind, using hemp instead of deforestation, and creating more environmentally friendly products. Whether or not global warming is real doesn't matter to the Rothchilds and Rockefellers, all they care about is using the symathies of the public to line their pockets. "Never let a crisis go to waste". So really, your post does nothing to this discussion other than divert attention.

Look I love South Park, but quit trolling and stay on-topic.

I beg to differ.  You (or maybe it was downwiththenwo..my bad if it wasn't you) claimed that global warming was a hoax and thus it is stupid to reduce CO2 emissions by way of taxation.  I'm saying that regardless of global warming, there are still harmful effects of CO2.  I also stated that a way to get someone to change their behavior is to give them incentives to do so.  Make it expensive to emit CO2...force corporations to find ways to emit less.  You said the way to reduce CO2 is through increased efficiency, but how do you think that is going to come about if corporations have no economic incentives to do so?  You know as well as i do that capitalists do nothing based purely out of the goodness of their hearts.   

Have you visited the site yet?  I don't have time to reply to everything you're writing at this point in time, but why don't you read some of these articles and come back to us?  If you're interested in knowing the truth about the subject rather than what the IPCC, U.N.and DoEd want you to know, you will have a much easier time finding it by doing the research yourself, and the site I linked you to is one of the most comprehensive sources.

It's:

scienceandpublicpolicy.org  

incase you lost the link.

I usually, and almost always, turn my head and attention when I hear 'Open your eyes'.

Also, don't be quick to shut down Jesse's opinion just because s/he bases their opinion on the facts they have gathered. You mentioned in your first post that you're open for discussion; be open to it. You can't have a discussion on, lets say, evolution and expect everyone to use the Bible as the source for discussion; not everyone will look at your sources, nor find them credible.

On a side note: I see nothing wrong with globalization, as it is slowly bringing the world to the point that we rely on one another. Not all the issues in this world can be solved by the US or some other Western power, and people in this world need to realize that, no matter our differences, we are all in this together. The more interconnected the world gets, the more I feel safer. World bank, IMF have their flaws, as any man-run organization has, but are out there for the better good.

 I just wrote out a one or two page detailed response to your comment, but my computer ran out of batteries - feels like writing a paper and losing it all.  I'll have to just give you a short, sloppy response.  

I did not and will not shut down Jesse's opinion and analysis, which is based on the U.N./IPCC studies, I am simply referring him to a site which openly displays studies from thousands of independent, non-partisan scientists only interested in science - not what lines their pockets.  Also, the only source I've presented is scienceandpublicpolicy.org, and whether or not you think the administrators of the site are credible or not, there are hundreds or thousands of peer-reviewed studies and articles presented on the site which are worth a gander or two.  The reason well-intentioned scientists support global warming is because they haven't discovered that the very foundational data of the studies done by the U.N./IPCC were botched, each part of the studies were misleading and inaccurate, "bad science" I suppose, but really not science at all.  See, the U.N./IPCC conclusions would be partially true if it were based on accurate data, but it isn't - and you can discover that among many other things by just doing some research into it.  

Let me give you an example of what I consider a credible source.  

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

This is an unclassified document where Joint Chiefs of Staff openly talk about their plans to

a) blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo and blame Cuba

b) develop a communist terror campaign in the Miami Florida area 

c) sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida. 

and on and on and on, yadda yadda yadda

Have you looked at any of the topics I've presented here in any length?  You would understand the effects of neoliberal policies and globalization have not led to a more united, peaceful world.  Corporations were once legally mandated to support the public interest and the public good, but this provision was destroyed by our representatives through force of bribery and intimidation because one of the Rockefellers did not like it.  The transnational corporations have been allowed to expand, and it has not been a "naturally evolving" process in the least, but this is the piece many people do not understand.  

Do you know the history of the Federal Reserve or the IMF/World bank? This university's sociology department will show you how the the IMF and World Bank destroyed and enslaved Jamaica and much of Africa.  Nobel Prized (lol) top economists even admit that the Federal Reserve intentionally caused the Great Depression by creating a period where they lent out loans without much interest, but with the catch that they could be recalled and forced to be repayed within 24 hours - so, of course, the Federal Reserve recalled ALL of these loans at once after inflating the money supply, causing people to start up businesses and buy houses.  This meant people could not pay their mortgages and loans and were forced into bankruptcy.  So no, these institutions are not working for the public good, and they are not just "flawed", they actively work for elite interest in consolidating power.  This is shown time and time again to be the case for the past several hundred years.  

I think you just proved his point for him.  Anytime someone responds to a post that you make with something other than a website that you brought up or some other source, you don't respond to the person who posted and discuss their ideas or complement their conversation.  You just say, have you checked out these sources or make the statements that people haven't read what you're talking about.  If you are so ingrained in your own views, how can there be a discussion?  I think the answer is rather simple.  You don't really want a discussion.  If you just want to have a discussion with like-minded people, you could create a post on here more like a recruitment message, and then make a separate group on googlegroups or other website where you can discuss these ideas among yourselves.  I have been reading your messages and your assumption that those who don't believe as you do or care about this subject are sheep who are blind to the world.  This is not only pretentious and an elitist view but is also very condescending and I am baffled as to how you think that anyone will take your messages seriously unless you stop insulting people. 

I don't really think that this will do any good but I wish you well with your crusade and would just be grateful if you stop the name calling and putdowns.  I think that you all are intelligent enough individuals that you shouldn't need such tactics.  One might even argue that those you oppose wield and use such tools.  What better way to show that you are truly different and care about and wish to fight for the people than to treat people with respect, dignity and acceptance. 

I agree with you on some of that.  I think a few of my replies have appeared pretentious, but this isn't because I feel like "everyone's a sheep that needs a good educating about the world", it's because I'm frustrated that people do not immediately think, "wow, who cares about forums drama or pretentious undercurrents or insults or slander or any of that, this information is insane!  I'm going to get to the bottom of this."  Why don't people think like that?  So yeah, I need to find a better way to present these issues in a way that makes people curious and open rather than making them feel overwhelmed or in need of defending what they know. I take responsibility for that, but I also think people have the ability and responsibility to seek what's true and ignore these petty, dramatic issues to focus on the big picture.

As for me not wanting a discussion, that couldn't be further from the truth.  What I don't want though is to argue over petty issues, or small pieces of information, because I am only one person and I do not have the time to respond and consider every tiny point being made.  It's about not losing the forest because of the trees.  I am not an expert in environmental science, I do not have all the answers, and I do not know all the equations or specifics, but I can show you the people who do.  Even if you decide to accept anthropogenic global warming, you should look at how it's being used to bolster a centralized power with complete authority over our lives.  

As myself and Anonymouse have said in a previous thread, please just look at the issues.  Don't get caught in the drama, there will inevitably be drama when you're trying to inform people about huge issues, some of which go against the grain of our educational system and common man's perception of how the world works.  

This is a good response.  Much calmer and less zealous.  I appreciate it and I can understand your frustration.  A simple answer could be that people have their own opinions or as you said it could be entirely that not thinking about this is easier. Interestingly enough, psychological examinations have shown that the more you attack the positions of others, the majority become more ingrained in them.  You may have the best of intentions and I can read the passion in your words, and perhaps that's why I suggested that this forum may not be the place for this.  You are encouraged to play with and discuss unique and interesting ideas, but noone has the right to post material that inflames according to the guidelines...which as I think about it is hard to do in politics since people take it beyond beliefs, they adopt attitudes that go with their beliefs, which arouse emotional responses.  Which is perhaps why my father always said, "Never discuss religion and politics with people." 

I am not an expert on any of this but it has been mentioned that there is information on numerous sides.  You see things one way and others may see them another.  We all come from different knowledge bases and so that's what we will use to bolster our points.  One could just as easily ask how you can expect otfhers to go and read the material that you find fascinating if you are unwilling to look at or discuss the points that they raise.  When neither side is willing to give an inch, or willing to consider fairly the viewpoints of others then you find yourself at an impasse.  At such an impasse, you have choices.  So far this topic I have seen beliefs and facts flung back and forth, which then makes people defensive because they believe their beloved beliefs and feel like they are under attack when presented with such one dimensional information that drives an agenda, because let's face it, that's what this is so far.  You folks have your agenda, which is against and opposes the fascist agenda.  However, the only way that you can discuss these issues is to compromise.  You have to be willing to examine opposing ideas with an open mind and they have to be willing to extend the same courtesy otherwise it just backslides into defense of agendas, and when people get defensive it kills discussion because the mind closes as tempers and emotions rise.  Like I pointed out earlier, it might also be best to drop the sheep analogy and also some posts have appeared as harrangues.  Negativity eventually begets negativity and it detracts from the message or information that you present. 

I do not mean or intend to derail this thread.  I am merely attempting to point out how this can work more like a discussion and maybe it will have the added benefit of lessoning the drama by having folks become engaged in what can be an interesting discussion among peers.  I came here not just to attend classes, but to encounter new and interesting ideas.  That said, it also might help if you were to introduce yourselves, your backgrounds, what you study...you know, some information that can give a good basis for finding common ground.  Might help put some folks more at ease and relax.   That said, my name is Dustin and I am studying psychology and English.  This is my first quarter at Western, and I love the school and environs.  I don't really have a political base.  I suppose that sometimes I do research upon ideas that I encounter and then decide upon the merits myself.  I am also very willing to admit when I do not know something.  Actually the more I come to know, the more that I realize all there is that I do not know.  I look forward to reading further posts on this topic if they are toned down and presented with courtesy and style.  Thanks and forgive my wordiness, but I hope that I've made my point respectively and peacefully :)

From a psychological point of view, one thing you said is particularly fascinating to me.  "The more you attack the positions of others, the onlookers/audience becomes more ingrained in that point of view."  It's absolutely true, I watch it in mainstream media all the time, it's a brilliant strategy.  

Your post is truly a testament to how important emotional understanding, empathy, 'feeling-equal-to' is in processing information.  I understand thoroughly what you're saying here. Thank you for writing this.  I am 5th year student at Western, and I have exposed myself to unholy levels of information, spending most of my free-time just researching what's going on in the world.  I am a student of sociology and I find the organizational structure of society most fascinating, and of course psychology is a key part of sociology.  This might be the last time I'll reply to a non-issue on the forums however, because I have spent 2 hours just replying to these sorts of comments today, but you can send me private messages and I'll be happy to give you more information.   

One important point though:  I don't think it's correct/accurate to frame/represent all of this as a sort of "sides" issue.  Now with global warming, you have people arguing that it's a problem, and people arguing that it isn't, and people that are arguing that even if it is an issue we can't do anything about it according to the UN/IPCC's own studies.  You have people saying a lot of different things, but it is important to examine the motivations and consequences, and affiliation behind each group/organization/scientist as well when forming an accurate view.  The Global Warming issue is one of debate, even though there would be no debate if people looked at Richard LIndzen's studies, especially the most recent one (I hate saying things like this, but there really is damning evidence against anthropogenic global warming).  it is important that you understand, from a psychological point of view, I am passionate and defensive about informing people of these things, but I do not think it's accurate or fair to set me in any sort of camp - I only am concerned with the truth.  I do not want to think the world runs this way, but I have literally hundreds and thousands of documents and video and audio to prove that it does.  I do not want to think there are a bunch of monarch slaves running around for their handlers suffering MPD and some of the worst traumas imaginable.  You should research MK ULTRA by the way since you seem to be very psychologically minded, I think you would find it fascinating, and also disturbing.

Now with practically every other issue except for 9/11 and 7/7 you have don't have sides, and the only reason you have them on 9/11 and 7/7 the governments haven't yet admitted they screwed us over.  For many of these issues, there's an "official" story, and there's the what-actually-fucking-happened story.  There's the unclassified documents about Operation Northwoods.  There's the Congressional hearings on MK ULTRA the head of the CIA was forced to admit they submitted people throughout several countries and in leading institutions, universities, etc, to extreme trauma and mind-control via drugs, etc.  There are so many unclassified documents on various operations that would blow your mind.  Yes, governments really do stage terror on their own populations, so much is admitted that people would be nauseous at what has been covered up right behind the corner.  That's really the point we're making about this stuff, and it's hard for people to grasp it because they're new to it all and think of everything in terms of scientific debate and scientific consensus, that there always has to be some "study" to prove what's going on, when they have the internet and the ability to read these unclassified documents themselves.  The corruption didn't go away, these people weren't arrested, Obama protected Bush from exposure of war-crimes, despite there being conclusive evidence that he knew there werent WMD in Iraq and lied, etc, there are just countless red flags.  The only problem with it is that you have to have a mind that allows you to sift through tons of information, so if you're always getting caught up in details you'll never catch up.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful or thorough with what you read though.  

Anyway, you make excellent points and I thank you again for bringing them up.  And don't worry, the forums is barely even the tip of the iceberg for what we're doing :)

Now this was especially excellent and I can read this with enjoyment.  I will look up that article and thanks for this informative and courteous response. 

Ok here's a background. Obama passed some bill that consisted of some huge amount of money that'll basically make America in debt for like the next so and so years. It'll make us in debt, as well as our children, and grandchildren. They're basically debt slaves because they owe the government that owes the banks for paying for the schools, the military stuff, and all the other stuff Obama wants to do. Ok how is that taxation without representation? Well Obama's carbon tax because of the notion that it's causing global warming or climate change is just that. If you agree that climate change is a problem and you think that by taxing everything that emits carbon including breathing, then Obama could in principal tax you for breathing. Sounds ridiculous but Obama did say we need to pull together for the sake of the country and the planet and we need to lower CO2 emissions didn't he? So that's one way of enslavement. Making you a debt slave and making you work, and work, and your children work, and work until you are no longer in debt...

Also, I'm not sure if you guys see the connection, but if you guys recall, disillusion and government corruption has happened before. It's like the Roman empire controlling most of Europe, Egypt controlling most of Africa and Southern Asia or the beginning of World War I. That's kind of like the NWO except on a more larger scale and a different place in time.  Man has always been greedy and we've always fought over resources to survive. However, now, instead of owning resources, the elites now want to have humans to own.

The way the NWO may come I think is similar to the way Hitler created the German empire during WWI. I remember doing an in depth report on the World War I and it was caused by nationalism, imperialism, and militarism and one other thing.

Well anyway, WWI happened because of the nationalism propagated by the government. That's also happening right now. With the war in Iraq and Obama spouting "Yes we can" he's creating a sense of nationalism. I also remember seeing banners on the streets "We support Our Troops" with the Uncle Sam pointing fingers banner all over. This as I see it, is propaganda to motivate people for nationalism and support the War when in reality, it's just tearing our country apart. "Divide and Conquer" they say. I think it was Napolean who said that. Well anyways, the elitists with the banks just want to split our country, create a sense of nationalism for our country so we'll support fighting a war we shouldn't be in, and helping the elites the bank holders and government heads divert our attention from what they're really doing. Which is saying that we can't do anything ourselves, like fight the Iraq war alone so we gotta pull ourselves with other nations and "yes we can" for GLOBAL GOVERNMENT. It'll either come by force, or by consent. I think probably by consent.

I don't remember who said this but I remember watching/reading somewhere that some bank guy said, "give me control of a nation's treasury and I don't care who makes the policies" something along those lines. It's kind of true. In my opinion. This is something I made up "the root of relationships is the desire for the preservation of power and life." Basically, everyone's out for themselves when it comes down to it. Your parents have a relationship to preserve their DNA -hence life- and you have/had a relationship with your parents for your life. You have a relationship with your teacher, you go to class, you learn to increase your power in the form of knowledge not money but since knowledge is power it is also money. Kinda abstract but yea. So, in the same way, banks want to have a relationship with you to increase their power and their life. This goes back to say that everyone's out for themselves and the greed of humanity. I guess it's not necessarily true for all cases but mostly true for most cases. Anyways, if there was a Global Government, who would fund such a government? The banks of course. Those global elites, the Rockefellers and the whatever, family it escapes my mind at the moment. 

I think I remember studying in AP US History, that it was a fight between Madison and Jefferson or two really important people, not sure right now, too lazy and too tired to look it up or refresh history but one debated against banks and letting them be a part of congress while the other one said it would be more efficient and help the country. In the end, the banks won but one of them warned about fascism and factions or the few controlling the many. Kind of like the french revolution in the days of Versailles and the king getting killed because the people were getting tired of being ruled by the few. 

In modern days, it's hard to see who the few that are controlling us are. But I remembering studying Karl Marx i think in Senior year and how in Capitalism we still have the few controlling the many. It's different from feudalism in that there are no more lords, kings and serfs but its the same in that we still have the few controlling the many. A marxist would say the problem with capitalism is that the bourgeousie those rich white men control the proletariots, the mass majority of poorer Americans. If you guys don't see who holds the power, it goes like this. The government controls you, the church confuses you, the military shoots you, the rich upper class business owners eat for you, and you at the bottom work for them all. Suck it. (excuse my language, I'm just kidding)

Now with the growing gap between the rich and the poor, the ladder of disparity is only increasing. You can relate this to the french revolution era. Mathew Rothschild would argue that we need a floor of decency for the poor in the form of free education, universal health care, and a somewhat better minimum wage that adjusts for inflation and decency. Cmon $8.50/hr? I remember gas prices going up to $4.30 or something in the summer of last year. The life of the American is declining, those flipping burgers at burger king and scanning milk at Walmart are barely getting by on $8.50 an hour. As this trend continues, as price increases, the cost of living increases, the average American, will be pushed onto the streets and living on welfare, pushing the rest of us even further into debt because we have to pay for Medicare for those on the streets living on welfare. Haha isn't this spiral of debt a great thing? (sarcasm) What to do with this mess? I have no clue, I don't have all the answers. I'm just showing what a mess we are in. 

Basically we'll probably all end up as debt slaves sometime in 2050. If not us, then probably our grand kids. When you look at the American dollar, how much dollar do you have to give up for a gallon of milk? It used to be under a dollar, and now its more than two dollars. The dollar is not backed by any gold or anything. That's why it's hardly worth anything besides what the bank says it is. Heh, if they wanted to, they could push us into more debt, and what follows debt is inflation, and the decrease in the value of the dollar. So while the value of the dollar decreases, the work we put in isn't worth any more than that which we put in, which is our time and energy. The average American may get a 10 cent raise, but the dollar goes down lower faster than you can make up for it. Thus the call for a global government. A one world currency so there is no such thing as inflation or one currency being worth more than another currency. But then what does that mean? It means, well, basically we're not living in a world where we're giving up goods for another good. We'll be giving up goods for a nothing. A virtual good, basically. That virtual good is credit. That virtual good can also fluctuate and be worth more or less depending on what the bank says your credit is. So Obama saying credit is the life blood of the country, yeah I guess that's true, but this is the consequence.

Bravo, brilliant gentlemen, absolutely brilliant. I mean that.

The NWO is simply the worst in Capitalism meets the worst in Communism. First you create a state of mind for people to follow, a status quo, it's not difficult to do if you control the output of all of television and inherantly all of the media, and have dedicated psychologists and sociologist that have an incredible knowledge of how the mass psychology works who will back your agenda for a hearty pay chack. Make it part of the fabric of their lives and engrane it into the ethics, and the popular culture. Instill a sense of nationalism and "us versus them" mentality and you have consensus of the entire people to carry out any agenda you may have, without it even being known. For a quick example, during the Red Scare it was a tremendous stigma to sypethize with the Communists. You had to support the Capitalist agenda to be accepted in our society. Poisons in the water and mass media control our sense of wanting to know what's really happening in the world. It's too "boring" for most of everybody.Then religion comes in ("the opium of the people" in Marx's own words) to soak up the sense emptiness and despair in the people and to forgive them of sins that are the result of a impoverished society. To pacify. Teach them that the entrepurial spirit, The American initiative, and a mule's work ethic will award you with your "American Dream". Mix that with the greed, corruption, and espionage that Capitalism breeds, monopolies, black markets, mafia men, ect...and what you get is a self-perpetuating oppressive Socialist system of governemnt. Mix that with a controlled monetary system and the strongest military to qwell any dissenters and you have a tiny elite with a monopoly of global power that's oppressive and tyranical that can never be challenged. The proggression of science is what will be used to controll the masses. We're no longer farmers fighting men with rifles, we're fat uneducated ununified spineless indebted people who don't care about anything other than our damn football teams or video games or Twilight hunks who are fighting a world class power elite who have ALL of the wealth, power and resources at their disposal. These are the same people who funded Hitler, Stalin, Mao while at the same time have been funding the U.S. and Britain to get intrest of the loans that fund both sides of every war...they're the highest and worst of monopoly men that exists. They are criminals, they stole and bank-rolled every government and empire and they either want you their slave or 6 feet under.

This is all govered in Alex Jones' films, especially Endgame, which shows them admitting all of this in their own words. It's not debate. It's fact.
 

www.talkmoneycafe.com/images/pyramid_of_power.jpg

You started off saying 'let's give some background' and this just make a statement without any support. Am I just to assume that Obama just passed a bill that will make us 'debt slaves'? Was there nothing more to the bill itself? For the record Obama just doesn't 'Pass Bills': congress passes them (the people that we elected into office).

Your lines about 'Obama taxing breathing' are extremist imo.Carbon tax would tax Carbon immissions= Yes; We emit carbon= yes, Carbon tax would tax individuals = Big N.O. That's called affirming the consequent, a logical fallacy. He wouldn't have power nor the support to pass a bill that allowed that. Remember that this nation is a democracy, we vote on things, we are not all little sheep cowering before the government, because we're the ones who give the government their power: We *give* it to them and we can also take it away (read: social contract).

How is Egypt or the old Roman Empire controlling large parts of the world 'government corruption'? The Roman 'Empire' was an empire, which means they extended imperial control to other lands. They conquered and actually made better the lands that they conquered: they didn't just make slaves of the people they captured, they gave them citizenship and many other rights. They conquered other lands because they -wanted- to, it was, in those days, a sign of power for a nation to hold large amounts of land: that was simply their ideology and there is nothing corrupt about that.

You're right about one thing, that there is a growing gap between the rich and the poor. That has happened to every society in history: It happens. There will always be rich and poor because economics is a zero sum game. There's X amount of wealth and if X= ABC and You have AB then I can only have C, you have more (assuming A=B=C). There are policies that can fix this, by taxing the wealthy more and the poor less, but that requires people to push their politicians to do so, instead of whining quietly in the background.

"The government controls you, the church confuses you, the military shoots you, the rich upper class business owners eat for you, and you at the bottom work for them all. Suck it." The government doesn't control me, I am free to make my own choices. There are consequences to bad choices (murder) but otherwise I am still free to make those choices = no control. I, at least, don't go to church nor believe in what religion provides = not confused. My dad's in the military and has never shot me, nor can I think or Imagine of a time where the military was employed and allowed use of deadly force against U.S. citizens. I also happen to eat very well and no one certainly 'eats for you'. In the future I plan on being employed as a teacher, which means Ill work for the government (the same government with the trillion dollar debt =  not rich) thus I wouldn't be working for the rich, but the people.

Milk costs more now because of something called inflation. The dollar is worth less, it's something that happens in economics outside of anyone's control. The dollar isn't backed by gold because that system was flawed and had many faults (governments trading U.S. dollars for gold)

The problem i have with these conspiracy theories is that, as the blow article puts, what you're doing is assuming a conclusion, 'NWO', and then pulling all sorts of stuff to try and prove it. I have, contrary to what has been said, taken a class on economics and the IMF and WTO and other NGOs were all brought up and discussed. Even having taken that class I have never on my own, with everything else I know, made the conclusion that there was some sort of new world order out to terrorize me. Am I a sheep? No. No one has ever told me that there wasn't a NWO or Xconspiracy; i've made that conclusion on my own.

The second problem I have is with the language of your text. By this I mean you repeatedly use words like 'i think' 'probably' 'anyway' 'kind of like' 'i don't remember' 'kinda' 'well, basically' and you said that "I remember doing an in depth report on the World War I and it was caused by nationalism, imperialism, and militarism and one other thing." All of these things, as a reader who is trying to see where your conclusion stems from, keep me from ever seeing your point, because you don't ever stand on firm ground. You expect me (the reader) in each of these cases to just believe you. How can I believe someone who did an 'in depth report' and who 'remeber doing' it, but can't tell me that 'one other thing'?

This kind, and other, conspiracies assume that the government is out to get us. The government that we elect each 2, 4, or 6 year term is somehow trying to get back at us for....what? Electing them? Every person who is elected wants more power? They don't just wanna serve their country in the best way they can? Every bank out there wants all of our money? They aren't just trying to run a business? You are assuming an effect and trying to find a bunch of causes for it, when the causes are completely unrelated. Maybe Oswald just killed JFK because he didn't like the man, just like Wilkes killed Lincoln. Maybe the surprise attack at Pearl Harbor was...gasp...a surprise. Maybe 911 was actually an act of terrorism by people who, for one reason or another, felt the US deserved it and not the US trying to kill it's own people...It's a stretch, I admit (sarcasm), but perhaps things happen for exactly how it appears.

Anyway, I provide the below article for your enjoyable reading:

http://www.crimsonpolitics.com/conspiracy-theories-infection

==Off Topic==

"Jewish Conspiracies - Can be explained by Israel's power and US support for Israel."

Lol, actually a lot of Israel's hegemony is b/c of this. A conspiracy by Israel to take over the Middle East is definitely unfounded, but their desire to continue expanding their borders by annexing land via provocation is quite correct.

Regardless, I still enjoyed the article.

Here's an article I found interesting:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR200905...

I disagree with a previous post--I think having the dollar not tied to anything tangible is a recipe for disaster.  This country started going to hell when the gov't got rid of the gold/silver standard and fixed exchange rates.

You can only print money for so long.  I looked at another article yesterday that claimed the gov't spends $3 to produce $1 of GDP and that the $1 produced has no real value.  I believe the implosion is inevitable unless some major changes happen.

Locke, obviously you're very informed on how our political system works, however, you don't represent a vast majority of the population. The vast majority of the electorate doesn't have a clue about how our government is supposed to be run or assumes that it's still working how it's supposed to. You describe the American system of government over the last 200 or so years but the point is that they are trying to dilute the republic. We need to hold our politicians accountable for their actions and make sure that things work the way they're supposed to. Unfourtunately I think that you're attacking the argument itself instead of actually doing any objective research into it. No matter what you think our officials are doing or what they're supposed to do or what the people can do about it, the fact is that they're not acting according to the American system of government. Watch one Alex Jones film and then come back to this conversation. If you can find one reason to justify why the wealthiest and most powerful men and women in the world meet behind closed doors without any public knowledge, which is against the law, it will amaze me. You know how the system is supposed to work and you go on to describe it as a counter claim to us. We know all of that, we're not uneducated when it comes to politics and economics, we're trying to tell you that that system is being watered down to nothing. Don't ever assume that America is too big or too good to fail or that the system is perfect. The reason why the founding fathers built the system the way they did is to give an educated public an opportunity to hold they're government accountable, and what you seem to be neglecting is that most of the public doesn't care anymore about the system, or doesn't have a clue about it.

 All right guys - one thing at a time - nobody can respond to TLDR essays not backed by any material.  :) The purpose of this thread is to take well documented events and reveal them to a segment of the student population.  Hopefully a peaceful discussion of this material will emerge.

@Locke, your statement "the problem I have with these conspiracy theories is...what you're doing is assuming a conclusion, 'NWO' then pulling all sorts of stuff to try and prove it" I have heard this from many people, even from professors, and this seems to be the driving perception behind your shutting down because of this information.  Look, I did not discover what I know today through assuming any conclusion, or through filtering out information that didn't fit with my perception.  This is a common psychological flaw, and I am well aware of it.  Don't you understand that I (probably Anonymouse as well) never wanted to believe there would be humans like us who were hell-bent on enslaving and destroying us, and that they fill many top positions in our society?  I desperately tried to disprove that there would be such a plot.  It took me months of researching things up to 18 hours a day (I had no life for a couple months and I am still plagued by the number of hours I spend researching) and speed-reading through thousands of articles, hundreds of documentaries, audio, video, unclassified documents, government textbooks, testimony, hearings...  I cannot link my brain to yours and instantly transfer hundreds (thousands?) of hours of research into your head. The reason I had to do so much research was because I was absolutely desperate not to believe people could be this sick and organized to fulfill such a disgusting plot, and I needed to be absolutely certain if I were to believe such a ridiculous, radical notion.  The idea of a monolithic conspiracy simply counters common sense about human nature and how we organize ourselves.  However, please do not assume that you know the way the "conspiracy" is ordered.  Do not assume that it's the "government" or "all our elected officials" - not at all.  Much of our elected congressmen and women represent us, as they should.  (Our Presidents have not though, since John F Kennedy).  

This is why I ask you to research MK ULTRA.  This is why I ask you to look at the unclassified document, "Operation Northwoods", which I linked in a previous post.  I encourage listening to John F Kennedy's last speech as well, which I've linked previously.  These are good places to start getting at how all of this works.  

Here is a documentary about multiple different medical experiment programs of the past century, including MK ULTRA.  You should not believe what you hear from one documentary, but should research the subjects being discussed.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS-20GnIXik&feature=related

I suggest that people stick to the topics above and not argue world views, it just doesn't do any good.  

When thinking about "debt" it's important that you ask, "who is it owed to?"  and "how did it accumulate?"  These are basic questions that people are practically trained NOT to consider.  One way banks accumulate money is through a process called "fractional reserve banking", which means charging interest on loans based on the money deposited.  Goldsmiths discovered several centuries ago that you can loan out 10x+ more money than is actually deposited and charge interest on it because people did not all withdraw their money at once.  This was outlawed for brief periods of times, but is being used today on a tremendous scale.  When the bankers created the Federal Reserve Act and bribed a few remaining Congress members to pass it in during Christmas break of 1913, they created an independent, private system of banks that would be allowed to print our currency without oversight under the guise of "controlling inflation and deflation", and be allowed to charge interest on that money they print.  The worst part - they charge interest to our government on this money they print.  Do you have any idea how much money our government borrows?  So let's think about this:  Private central banks above the law have total control over how many dollars we have in circulation, they then have explicit authority to lend that money to our government, at interest.  If a bank has $1000 in deposit, charging 6% interest per year it will make $600 per year.  Hopefully you know that these banks do not have $1000 deposit, and often charge more than 6% interest per year on that money.  Banking gets more complicated from here - but this is what you need to understand because it is the root of the injustice.  

I highly recommend this 3 1/2 hour documentary on the very long history of these international bankers.  It is extremely important information for everyone remotely interested in economics - and we all ought to be considering the economic times.

http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/how-international-banker...

“History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.”

-James Madison

Yes, Downwiththenwo!  That is an excellent documentary everyone not familiar with the history of banking in the United States should watch.  Please allow me to offer a link with a little better video quality and larger screen size:

http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?filmid=243&id=1170&wh=800x520

I like your response Locke. It was constructive criticism. Well actually it was late at night and I was writing this stuff up when I shouldn't be but what the heck. Obviously, you're right, my claims don't have all that many evidence to back up my claim but I joined this discussion to open up the topics so you guys can throw claims back and forth. That's how philosophy works, one philosopher comes up with something and another person comes up with stuff and people just fling things back and forth which philosophers call "progress" according to one of my philosophy teachers.

Well anyways, it'd definitely take me hours upon hours to thoroughly investigate each claim and bring back evidence for where I got it from to your satisfaction. But, I merely opened up the topics so we can get a discussion.  Anyways, like Downwiththenwo I've also done a lot of independent investigating. It seems totally ridiculous for me to think such things like the NWO exists. That the government is not out for our interests and that there are people out there that really do want to enslave us. However, when we look at history, we're not all that far from Egyptian times and slavery. How else did they get the pyramids built? Or, during the Roman Empire, O.K. I don't know a whole lot about the Roman Empire but didn't they use conquered people and made them join their army to expand and conquer even more land? I don't always make claims with evidence because evidence is not always readily available. But since I am only one person and this is a discussion, I make claims hoping that other like minded people have evidence for my claims. In that way we can all work together and come to a consensus so no one person feels like they're doing all the work. 

Back to slavery in human history topic. Only 100 years ago, a blip in human history we had slavery. Black slavery. Even when we didn't have black slavery, we had female slavery. Or well according to one of the feminists during the women's right's movement. I do have papers to back up my claims, it's just that the papers are located in another place.

Well anyways, you're not supposed to believe everything I say right away. I don't want you to take my word for it. I'm not writing a descriptive report on the NWO. It's already been written and well documented. You just have to be persistent enough to look for it. Besides, the reason those of you who are on this forum is because you want to know truth and you're quite skeptics as well right?

So, well anyways, right now I'm investigating just one claim. The claim that something called the Phoenix lights phenomenon thought to be caused by the presence of UFO's or military flares from planes may possibly be a different type of military testing called HAARP. HAARP is the High frequency Active Auroral Research Program funded by the US navy and air force to explore ways to manipulate the ionosphere for military purposes. Right now, I'm just investigating whether or not, HAARP can beam images up into the ionosphere or not. While the research is still somewhat inconclusive, there are lots of evidence to suggest that it can shoot images up into the ionosphere in much the same way the Aurora Borealis works or your Plasma TV works.

HAARP using electromagnetic energy in the form of radio waves is supposed to have the power to heat the ionosphere to create plasmas. Plasma, just like in your plasma t.v., the aurora borealis or those cool electric spheres sold in stores all over emits light. HAARP claims to be able to make these plasmas, bend it according to the operators will, and affect communication as well as "produce airglow with megawatt power mainly in the visible and IR region of the spectrum." That is directly quoted from the HAARP Research and Applications document. Our very library has it as well as on the internet. See below.

http://foia.abovetopsecret.com/ultimate_UFO/Advanced/HAARPResearchAndApp...

There's also a lot of other uses for HAARP but this is the most tangible and most convincing evidence that our military may be corrupt as of late for me. Well I gotta go back to reading Angel's Don't Play this HAARP by Doctor Nick Begich and Jeane Manning. There's also a video on this HAARP thing if you just look on youtube. See below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jOqfmN_3vA

Good luck researching,

Chow

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread315540/pg1

http://9-11themotherofallblackoperations.blogspot.com/2009/08/mind-contr...

 http://911mockingbird.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/911-molecular-dissociation-beams-crop-formations-other-molecular-changing-gizmos-2/

 Judges in New Orleans ruled, police no longer need a search warrant to search your home. So what ever happened to the constitution and privacy?

http://www.greatdreams.com/security.htm

@Blackstaff, did you ever read or watch the documentary on MK ULTRA? 

@Jesse, did you ever check out the info on the SPPI site about global warming?  

Just checking in.  

@Curiousmind09, thanks for the info about HAARP.  A lot of people will deny that such technology even exists, despite the fact that much of it is information open to the public, and we can find documents in our own Wilson Library.  They were openly discussing using the technology in Moskow this winter to prevent snowing.  Nikola Tesla was the scientist who invented technology a hundred years ago that the military still uses today.  It's funny that we all hear about Einstein, when in my opinion Tesla has been one of the most relevant inventors to our modern lives.  Many people have never heard of him.  

Actually, I never heard of Nikola Tesla until recently even though he's been around for a 100 years. Well HAARP definitely exists. The quickest and easiest way is to either type "HAARP" on google or look it up on google earth in which case you can see for yourself that the antenna array system is real and exists in our very own "backyard." Though nobody looks in Alaska because not enough people care. 

A few things before I get down to the nitty gritty:

1) 6% of 1000 is 60 dollars, not 600; which makes a big difference in your idea of 'debt'

2) It is now believed by Historians (and this is something we discussed in my Ancient Near East class) that the pyramids were not built mostly by slaves, but by free laborers. This means that people, who loved their country (nationalism) built these pyramids for their leaders.

3) "I have heard this from many people, even from professors, and this seems to be the driving perception behind your shutting down because of this information."   I had a video I was gonna show that talked about how it is not close minded just because I do not see your point. I have looked at the arguments and several of the articles provided and I have still 'shut down' this whole NWO theory because 1. I don't believe it to be possible; 2. The 'evidence' that you believe, I see as coming from questionable sources or are produced to questionable conclusions. Oh look I found it!: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8uei4_openmindedness_tech

Now, I have in the past read up on MK Ultra. I fail to see how this connects. It was a government run project in the...50's. An era where there was the constant looming threat of Soviet Invasion, of the 'Reds' getting us, nuking us; anyone could be one of them: your neighbor, your best friend, etc. Yes, MK ULTRA is crazy and far fetched, testing 'mind control' and instead just produced a variety of weird and useless (mostly) drugs. If you are going to judge history, you need to judge history on history's terms.

You're right that our government borrows a shitton of money. We borrow all this money and that is what has made our country so relatively great. We have the technologies and the highest GDP in the World, only because we borrow money like we do and countries like China live in substandard ruts, firstly because of their form of government, in my opinion, but secondly and more importantly because they are the one's who -give- money. Personally I like being able to afford internet, cable, running water, heat, the latest electronics, etc, which are only available because of our banking system.

"The reason why the founding fathers built the system the way they did is to give an educated public an opportunity to hold they're government accountable, and what you seem to be neglecting is that most of the public doesn't care anymore about the system, or doesn't have a clue about it."

Firstly the people during the 1800's who were doing the voting could not all be considered 'educated', hell even many of our presidents during that time lacked an official education. Free Public Education wasn't a concept until David Ricardo (or maybe J.S. Mills, one of the two), an economist who promoted capitalism and economic liberalism, came up with the idea that many public services should be run by large businesses. Before FPE people were taught by their Moms/Pops, or if they were more wealthy, they went to school, the latter of the options being outside of the ability of many people to afford. Now adays we can hold our government much more accountable then they could in the 18 and 19th centuries. Back then it took weeks/months for news to get from D.C. to other parts of the country: making it difficult to quickly rally responses for/against. Now adays we can find out nigh immediately what is going on thanks to our many reporters.

If most of the public, more than 50%, doesn't care about what our government does then how is this an issue? I find it sad that 'most' don't care, but in a democratic society where the majority votes and wins this 'majority' has won. I'm not saying that our system is perfect, but it is, in my opinion, more perfect than others. I have faith in my country and I find evidence lacking to prove that there is either Government or Privately backed efforts to 'rule the world'. If anything, the last people in the world to be made 'slaves' will be the American people. There's a point where Americans can be pushed and prodded like sheep, but at some point we turn around with fangs bared and say 'No more'. We did it with the British, we did it against one another during the Civil War, we did it in WW1, in Vietnam, and in the current Iraqi war: we'll allow our government to go so far before we say 'The hell with this'. If there is some NWO trying to make slaves of us they're gonna need something a lot stronger then MKULTRA or 'debt slaves' to accomplish that.

 1) I don't think you read the whole paragraph, I was talking about fractional reserve banking.  When a bank has $1000 in deposit, it will theoretically make $600 in a year charging 6% interest because it is able to loan 10x+ the amount in deposit at interest.  This practice has been outlawed throughout history for obvious reasons.  Think about how much money these banking institutions make through this practice alone.  Where do you think we get trillions of dollars in debt?  For every dollar borrowed, a bank theoretically gets that dollar back charging 10% interest under the legal allowance of fractional reserve banking.  When a government is borrowing trillions of dollars from one of these private institutions, you can imagine what that means.  Take note that these private banks which loan money to the national governments have been created in most nations throughout the world.  

2)  I don't mean to be terse, I just do not understand what the relevancy of this is.  I never mentioned ancient egyptian slave labor.  Maybe this is addressed to someone else?

3)  As for the evidence for this "theory" and the validity of these sources, do you think the unclassified documents of the Joint Chiefs of Staff discussing Operation Northwoods is a questionable source?  Or John F Kennedy's last speech?  Or the Science and Public Policy Institute website?  Or the documentary on the history of international bankers?  Or the documentary called "Monarch"?  Those are the only sources I've linked anyone to on this forum, and if you don't trust the last two documentaries you can go point by point and verify every claim.  There are plenty of unclassified documents, testimony, and congressional hearings on these programs.  if you don't trust the SPPI, then you have the option of going through the studies disproving the theory of anthropogenic global warming yourself.  It's a bogus theory - the evidence which supports it is based on manipulated data from the U.N. and IPCC, but please don't take my word for it, there are hundreds of thousands (conservative number) of articles and studies discussing how this is so.  Anthropogenic global warming would have been seen as a largely disproven and highly unsubstantiated theory if it weren't supported by top officials in powerful organizations, and thereby supported by grants, peer-pressure, movies, pop-culture, environmental concern, etc (Planet Earth disc 4 comes to mind - I really loved the series though).  

I'm glad you checked out MK ULTRA, but it seems that you focused more on the political events and history surrounding MK ULTRA then actually looking into the program itself.  It's fine that you don't understand how it connects, and it really doesn't need to connect to anything.  One of the more subdued points is simply that the CIA was so heavily involved in experimental techniques of "mind control" and they were able to conduct it throughout 182 top American institutions and in other countries.  The idea here is that this secretive organization is still around, and just because they "officially" scrapped the program in the 1960s and 70s gives absolutely no evidence that these techniques are not still being used.  In fact, I can point you to thousands of pieces of evidence that it has only gone more underground since then, and the technology and use has only expanded since then.  Who in their right mind thinks this sort of corruption just goes away overnight?  It's the same thing with Operation Northwoods.  Do you really think it was just "a few bad apples"?

The main point I'm trying to convey is that this isn't all "one theory", which is what people want to commonly assert that it is, since there is so much they(we) haven't heard.  It's just - if you understand what the Joint Chiefs of Staff were discussing in Operation Northwoods, Operation Ajax, Operation Gladio, etc. you might be slightly less prone to believing the official story of say, 9/11.  You will know that our government has secretive, corrupt elements.  This should allow you to look more into the corruption.  The reason some say learning about these things begins to feel like "falling down a rabbit hole" is because once you begin to take very seriously the possibility of pervasive corruption throughout our elements of our society, you will begin to uncover just how much there is, and you will realize that there are many connections within these corrupt elements, and that there is actually a historic, monolithic conspiracy - a crime against human nature and humanity in my perception, but very real.  I point people to Kennedy's last words in the beginning because it allows their mind the possibility of a conspiracy, when normally our minds close down to this possibility since it just appears incredibly unlikely due to the way we're socialized (media, family, peers, education, religion).  

(As for the rest of what you said, I think it was addressed to Anonymouse)

I haven't yet.  I've been distracted by other topics and by reading Dhalgren for my English class.  Will get back to you on that soon.

This source leads back to HAARP and is definitely a reliable source. To pinpoint you to the most interesting and time saving sentence, type in "myocardium" after hitting control+F. After that, you can go back and read the rest of it from the beginning. Tell me what you think Downwiththenwo and others.

 http://www.raven1.net/jwalltil.htm 

An alternative route is to type in "Further, the passage of approximately 100 milliamperes through the myocardium can lead to cardiac standstill and death, again pointing to a speed-of-light weapons effect." google it.

Another surprisingly interesting quote says:

"While initial attention should be toward degradation of human performance through thermal loading and electromagnetic field effects, subsequent work should address the possibilities of directing and interrogating mental functioning, using externally applied fields within the possibility of a revolutionary capability to defend against hostile actions, and to collect intelligence data prior to conflict onset."

What this seems to say is that the objective of the research would be towards mind manipulation at a distance, where the military could alter what people thought and, at the same time, know what they thought...

Paraphrased from Angel's Don't Play this HAARP by Doctor Nick Begich

You can look it up for yourself here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/533366/Angels-Dont-Play-This-HAARP-Advances-in...

However it is a long read. I have the hard copy now from our Summet Library ordering catalogue. So to get to the point, just Control+F or Command+F the previous quotes and you can see where all of this is coming from.

Locke:

I hope you're faith in this system is rewarded and we can all afford cable, internet, etc. in the future. I don't think you fully grasp the implications of what's happening in the economic (banking) sphere, especially with regards to some of the changes that have only occurred in the last fifteen or twenty years. For example, the lending banks and investment banks no longer must be separate institutions and what that means for us all. That was outlawed before the Clinton administration. The list goes on and on and I'm not going to write it all down for your consumption. The fact that we've been largely sheltered from a REAL financial meltdown up to now is great, for now. But what happens when the dollar is eventually replaced by another currency? Perhaps you overestimate the rest of the world's perceived value of our nation, or whether they care what our standard of living is in the future. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is because the other countries (economic blocs) hold an ENORMOUS amount of dollars—the Chinese over a trillion, the Japanese about the same and the EU about the same. They don't want to go down with us and that's why we're still safe, for now. This isn't some big conspiracy theory, these are real things happening right now. I realize the video link I posted about the history of banking in the US (in my previous post) is over three hours and sometimes tedious, but please check it out when you have time.  Everyone, please watch it. It really is enlightening and explains a lot of what's happening, none of it new btw. Also, I highly recommend these shows on Frontline, The Warning and Breaking the Bank:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1302794657

http://video.pbs.org/video/1168339502

I think earlier you asked the question about the logic (or, lack thereof) behind banks wanting to hurt the society that keeps them in business. The answer is because it doesn't matter if economic times are good or bad, the money changers make money—this is especially true in BAD economic times. It's just a transfer of wealth, plain and simple. And NO, the banks should never be what our understanding of what a “business” is! Money should work for us, not the other way around. Banking is way too important to be left to the devices of private institutions.

The fact is this: The banks are a CARTEL and they do what all good cartels do (OPEC, etc.)--they CHEAT.

Please check these things out. If all Americans understood what was going on, we could actually make corrective changes in only a few years time to get us out of debt and restore our economy. If things continue as they have been, an implosion WILL happen. None of us will be buying electronics when that happens.

Our money buys less now than it has since the Great Depression.  The standard of living is declining--fast.  There are reasons for this.  The responsibility of any gov't should be the continued prosperity of its citizens.  Why isn't this happening?  I know it takes some looking to find the answers but I urge you and everyone to do so before our problems as a nation become insurmountable. 

 These videos may give some insights as to why the German Nazi were able be so immoral and why America looks, but does not see. We tend to conform as well as believe in the higher authority. Conforming to society, and believing in what the media and government feeds us is a way of life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1euWT3NZjY   This video's short 2:14 a funny and must see video of conformity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRh5qy09nNw  This video 1.58 another short and must see video. It's a video of the Asch's experiment conducted in the past. A better study and widely studied experiment on conformity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6GxIuljT3w    This video is 10:47, its a bit long but it explains the immorality of Nazi germans simply because they were following orders. It's basically a modern replication of Milgram's experiment done in the 1960's to explain how Nazi soldiers could just "follow orders" when they were so immoral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk    This video is a bit shorter. its 5:59 and its a bit better than the more modern video since its more to the point but has a ominous vibe to it. It's still the Milgram's experiment. Just a little less up to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsN2WUY7Bhk     This video is 5:23. Optional watch, kinda repetitive and boring but gets the point across of modern society and conformity.

And how exactly do you plan to stop the massive multi-media conglomerates with billions of dollars at their disposal brainwashing everyone with access to a newspaper, a television, a radio, or the internet (read: everyone in the nation).

I used to think very similairly to the way you guys (you know which ones I'm talking about) are thinking, and I still agree with some of the things you're saying, but I've long since gotten over taking it as far as you seem to... and maybe that's just the "system" finally worming its way into my brain and changing my opinions. Or perhaps it's just common sense. I'm not sure.

But either way, what are you doing about it? Posting on a college forum? Because from the lack of participation from the rest of the community in this thread, I'd probably go as far as to say that most people think you're crazy, and that you're preaching to the choir here. The spread of information is good, and it's true that only those who investigate and read for themselves will start to formulate new opinions on these matters, but I don't think that's enough.

I think in the long run, if what you believe about the way the world workds is correct, we are fucked. Plain and simple, that is all there is to it. And while that is an incredibly depressing thing to realize, there's not many other conclusions to come to.

If one person gets to the point where he decides: "That's it, I will not be tred on anymore" and picks up a gun, or builds a bomb and goes all guy fawkes on Congress, that person will be labeled, by the entire country, as a terrorist. That person will not be viewed as someone fighting for his personal freedoms or the good of the republic, he will be labeled a terrorist and treated as such.

The problem is you can't get everyone to get to that point at the same time, there would have to be some unimaginable event of horrid proportions with undeniable, unspinable evidence against the powers-at-be to cause an uprising sufficient to change anything, and even if that did happen, there would still be people in this country, watching the tube, and identifying with the media.

They have tanks, and nukes, and ionospheric heaters, and body armor, and control over the communications infrastructure of the entire nation. They have every possible means of quashing a rebellion in its infancy, and what do we have?

We have the internet (for now) and some small-arms. When/if it comes down to the shitstorm, you can fight for what you believe in, but you will be murdered and labeled as a terrosist.

And that's why it'll never happen and we'll march peacefully, ignorantly, towards their intended destination for us.

I stumbled upon another interesting quote that seems quite plausible.

"Even though the body is basically an electrochemical system, modern science has almost exclusively studied the chemical aspects of the body and to date has largely neglected the electrical aspects."

Permission is given to reproduce and redistribute, for

non-commercial purposes only, provided this information and the

copy remain intact and unedited.

Very interesting and I find it a reliable resource. Correct me if I'm wrong. Link see below:

http://myweb.cableone.net/mtilton/mn142a.htm

For the lazy, just Control+F the previous quote.

I'm going to take what you're saying and expand on it a little, then explain why I disagree with this perspective:

1) Powerful, pervasive propaganda.  Mass media controlled by only a few people whose editors/key players are all members of the Council on Foreign Relations or Trilateral Commission (among other elite organizations, I'm sure) are in control of how most people obtain their information.  This is true, clearly Glenn Beck, for example, is hijacking the large movement of people who are beginning to understand the corrupt system we live in and sending them in the wrong direction.  However, once you figure these things out, the propaganda can't work on you.  You can't be divided along conservative vs liberal lines or any of that bullsh*t.  A product of this powerful tool is Cenk, that host of "the young turks" on youtube, or Bill Maher and John Stewart.  They have swallowed the propaganda hook line and sinker and I think they all mean well, but it the conservative vs liberal characteristics/traits colors everything they see, and are made very easily to turn against "tea parties" or Ron Paul, or whoever/whatever they directed to see as coming from the "conservative" community.

2)  Posting on a college forum isn't very useful, the few people who decide to participate already agree with us, and the rest will just think it's extreme/crazy/weird.  I think this is an outlandish claim, we're already getting a discussion going, this thread is becoming more and more popular, and once you start exposing people to these facts and notions, you break down their I-have-never-seen-this-before-and-therefore-it-is-extreme/fringe barrier.  I do agree that posting on a college forums is not at all enough, which is why we're using this as a tool to get the ideas spread widely through the forums-knowledgable community, but it isn't all we're doing.  I am going to come up with some very creative tricks to spread this information and nothing is going to stop that from happening.  The elite think "we will have a new world order, either by consent or conquest" but not me.  I am fully intent on organizing and spreading this info throughout this community, I'm going to do everything I can to make that happen. 

3)  We are not f*cked.  If you decide to turn on the apathy machine, please keep it turned on only in your own brain.  Please do not make other people feel apathetic or hopeless, or we will be screwed, like you say.  I see plenty of ways all of this is going to go down, and I would love for it to be a peaceful, global revolution, but that may not happen.  It's possible that Iceland will declare a debt moratorium from the IMF and circulate their own currency - the world may see how sucessful this is and no mass media will prevent the public from realizing the oppressive evil of the international bankers.  I think we are seeing a massive awakening to this information.  Come on man, we could have never had this discussion even 5 years ago.  One of the biggest hopes I have (but i do not depend on this hope) is that people within their own ranks will dissent when chaos and hell is unleashed on all of us.  These people are not perfect.  They are not our gods.  They make so many f*cking mistakes.  This vaccine stuff has really turned against them, for example, and that never would have happened a few years ago. 

4)  We have the truth.  Let's fight for everyone getting the chance to see it and not diminish into depression and hopelessness.  

I agree with Downwiththenwo. I'm going to be helping to spread this stuff too. I thought I was alone until I found this forum. 

I can pretty much agree with everything you just said, even if it contradicts a few of the things I previously said. Thanks for the response.

"Political strategists are tempted to exploit research on the brain and human behavior. Geophysicist Gordon J. F.MacDonald - specialist in problems of warefare - says accurately-timed, artificially-excited electronic strokes 'could lead to a pattern of oscillations that produce relatively high power levels over certain regions of the earth...In this way, one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period'...No matter how deeply disturbing the thought of using the environment to manipulate behavior for national advantages to some, the technology permitting such use will very probably develop within the next few decades."

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/HAARP.htm

Look it up for yourself and Control+F that 

Instead of a public protest at Western, what about painting in Red square? Anybody an artist? Then again we don't need artists to write down a couple quotes guys. I think we can really get the message out if we get some chalk, and write out maybe some quotes from Kennedy, or from Angel's Don't Play this HAARP. What about starting with "HOPE" 

 The Manhatten Project which developed the first atomic bomb started in 1942. The first atomic bomb was exploded on July 16, 1945 more than 50 years ago. That project started with a $6,000 funding appropriation to the Uranium Committee and ended, by 1945, at $1.7 billion ($20 billion today). The total cost of the United States nuclear weapons program since the Manhattan Project has been $4 trillion - 80% of the entire national debt on the government books in 1995. Is HAARP another program about to plunge the world into a rush of waste and human misery?

As written by Angel's Don't Play this HAARP by Doctor Nick Begich. Chapter Twenty-eight.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/533366/Angels-Dont-Play-This-HAARP-Advances-in...

 The military's authors discuss emerging technologies which may go against Americans' beliefs in such things as the presumption of innocence, the right to disagree with the government, and the right to free expression and movement throughout the world. At one point in the document they discuss the need to use new technology to keep track of Americans traveling out of the United States:

      "While advances in robotics and information technologies may make it possible to perform many commercial activities with fewer employees in dangerous regions, those Americans who are overseas will be more isolated and dispersed. This complicates the main problems of NEOs (noncombatant evacuation operations): identification and notification of the individuals to be evacuated, identification of safe routes, and assessment of threats to the evacuation. Technology could diminish these problems. In the near future every American at risk could be equipped with an electronic individual position locator device (IPLD). The device, derived from the electronic bracelet used to control some criminal offenders or parolees, would continuously inform a central data bank of the individuals' locations. Eventually such a device could be permanently implanted under the skin, with automatic remote activation either upon departure from the U.S. territory (while passing through the security screening system at the airport, for example) or by transmission of a NEO alert code to areas of conflict. Implantation would help preclude removal of the device (although, of course, some terrorists might be willing to remove a portion of the hostage's body if they knew where the device was implanted). The IPLD could also act as a form of IFFN (identification friend, foe or neutral) if U.S. military personnel were equipped with appropriate challenge/response devices."

The most likely people to receive the implants are military personnel who will be told that this will help rescue them if they are captured. They may be the first, setting the stage for the rest of the country. Will our military personnel object? Will our defenders recognize that this is an invasion by our government into the rights guaranteed by our Constitution - a Constitution they have sworn to defend?

~page break~

The Cold War is not over, but has changed. We know that there are concerns which, being a free people, we must address and bring to the attention of others. We believe that the greatest threat to freedom is an over-oppressive and increasingly secretive government. To many, the government has shifted from one "of the people, by the people and for the people" to a government "of special interests, for their own benefit, at the people's expense." What went wrong, and where it went wrong, to a large extent, is a product of the intelligence bureaucracies which thrive through one administration to the next with unrestrained growth. These secretive bureaucracies hide more and more of their secrets under a cloak of "national security", while drifting further from the principles which have allowed the United States to exist for over two hundred years. Secret government policy is not sanctioned by the free will of the population, and threatens the core beliefs of liberty, honest government and public responsibility. 

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub241.pdf

Link to the quote is above

Link to the book Angel's Don't play this HAARP below

http://www.scribd.com/doc/533366/Angels-Dont-Play-This-HAARP-Advances-in...